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Americans are paying a huge amount of money.
The Oregonian

Posted on 09/18/2006 6:16:11 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb

Oregon City - Killer's re-sentencing: $450,257.78

The bills are in: The defense of serial killer Dayton Leroy Rogers in his third sentencing trial cost Oregon taxpayers $450,257.78.

Rogers' attorneys submitted their bills to the Office of Public Defense Services, which this month tallied them at the request of The Oregonian.

During a seven-week trial that ended in March, Rogers' defense team argued for life in prison, but a 12-person jury sentenced him to death. Rogers had twice been sentenced to death for the 1987 murders of six women, whose bodies he dumped in the Molalla area woods, but the Oregon Supreme Court had twice overturned those sentences, while letting his conviction stand.

Kathryn Aylward, director of contract and business services for the public defense office, said information on the total cost of defending Rogers since 1987 wasn't readily available. Rogers' case is being automatically appealed to the Oregon Supreme Court, the first in a 10-step process that could take 10 or 15 more years.


TOPICS: US: Oregon; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: killhimnow; killhimyesterday; moralabsolutes; mostevil; oregon; serialkillers; zotmeplease
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1 posted on 09/18/2006 6:16:11 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb

Sounds series.


2 posted on 09/18/2006 6:17:06 AM PDT by TexasNative2000 (Thailand?)
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To: Smoke Bomb

This is just the defense for one trial. He has had three and the prosecution has probally spent way more than this.


3 posted on 09/18/2006 6:18:19 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: TexasNative2000

woops I meant to post this to you Texas LOL


4 posted on 09/18/2006 6:19:23 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb
Well, they shoulda just shot him after the first conviction, and saved a boatload of money.

But nooooo, that is a mean thing to do to a serial killer.

5 posted on 09/18/2006 6:20:03 AM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: Smoke Bomb

Not finding this article.

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?sconfig=olive&xpath.attraction_type=-EXCLUDE+-exclude+-zzz&xpath.pubdate=09%2F18%2F06+09%2F17%2F06+09%2F16%2F06+09%2F15%2F06+09%2F14%2F06+09%2F13%2F06+09%2F12%2F06+09%2F11%2F06+09%2F10%2F06+09%2F09%2F06+09%2F08%2F06+09%2F07%2F06+09%2F06%2F06+09%2F05%2F06&count=20&xref=7&xpath.any=Rogers

Got a link?


6 posted on 09/18/2006 6:20:11 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/metro_south_news/1151463329145720.xml?oregonian?sie&coll=7


7 posted on 09/18/2006 6:22:16 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb

Thanks


8 posted on 09/18/2006 6:25:31 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Smoke Bomb

Welcome, btw. Might wanna have the mods correct your title to the original: Oregon City - Killer's re-sentencing: $450,257.78

The reason is so a search will avoid duplicates. Plus, your title provides no context - spending huge amount on what? McDonald's? Christmas presents?


9 posted on 09/18/2006 6:28:10 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Smoke Bomb

So at what point does a person have the 'right' to not burn up my money while getting extra days that those six women did not get?


10 posted on 09/18/2006 6:30:24 AM PDT by sandbar
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To: Larry Lucido

LOL


11 posted on 09/18/2006 6:32:24 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Larry Lucido

Larry the reason I put that was because this is happening all over the states. Dayton is only one of thousands that throughout America that are costing the taxpayers money. Just imagine how much money it would be in all if you added up all the appeals in the nation.


12 posted on 09/18/2006 6:39:42 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb

Oh, I agree. Some posters will put extra relevant comments in brackets after the title (like "barf alert," "Dowd alert," etc.). Judicious use of keywords can help get an article noticed, too.


13 posted on 09/18/2006 6:46:00 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

LOL Barf Alert LOLOLOL!


14 posted on 09/18/2006 6:47:50 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb

Stick around. You'll see a little bit of everything. :-)


15 posted on 09/18/2006 6:49:18 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Smoke Bomb
It seems to me that with all of these millions of dollars they could find something more tangible to do with the money like help children in schools, the disabled, elderly, etc.......
16 posted on 09/18/2006 6:49:49 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Larry Lucido

Yeah I am sure I will but I am pretty mellow and don't let the stupid s*** bother me.


17 posted on 09/18/2006 6:51:02 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Larry Lucido
Might wanna have the mods correct your title to the original:

The title should really say, "Lawyers get rich defending scumbag."

18 posted on 09/18/2006 7:00:32 AM PDT by aimhigh
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To: aimhigh

That would work but it still comes from the taxpayers money.


19 posted on 09/18/2006 7:21:02 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: aimhigh

Larry how do you get ahold of the mods?


20 posted on 09/18/2006 7:22:19 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb

sorry wrong post. I meant to post this to Larry.


21 posted on 09/18/2006 7:23:15 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Larry Lucido

Man this site is making me dizzy. I keep posting to the wrong person or myself LOL! Anyway how do you get ahold of the mods? My daughter was messing around with my PC all weekend and she really messed it up. I can't do anything with it now. I guess I'll have to crash it and restore it. God only knows what the heck she did here.


22 posted on 09/18/2006 7:25:56 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: teenyelliott

a bullet costs $ .35


23 posted on 09/18/2006 7:58:28 AM PDT by HOTTIEBOY (I'm your huckleberry)
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To: TexasNative2000

"Sounds series."

'Tis series indeed. The costs are Hugh. And the taxpayers are about to talk to Hughy & Ralph.

Stand well clear of the lee rail during that talk.


24 posted on 09/18/2006 8:06:12 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principles, - -)
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To: sandbar
"So at what point does a person have the 'right' to not burn up my money while getting extra days that those six women did not get?"

That point never arrives because if it did, the lawyers would not be able to add to their "billable hours". You tryin' to take money from deservin' laawyers? HUHHH?

Lawyers got rights!

;-(
25 posted on 09/18/2006 8:09:34 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principles, - -)
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To: GladesGuru

LOL


26 posted on 09/18/2006 8:32:04 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb

You can just add Admin Moderator to the "To:" box, or for a faster response you can hit the "abuse" button on yourself and write a quick note explaining what you need. Don't worry, "self abuse" isn't frowned on around here. LOL!


27 posted on 09/18/2006 8:56:01 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

Thanks Larry... :-)


28 posted on 09/18/2006 9:38:23 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: GladesGuru

I'm a lawyer and when I was first starting out in private practice I used to do a lot of these court appointed cases. They were barely worth the effort. Whatever bills you submit, they end up getting chopped down to next to nothing. You bill for everything you can think of knowing this will happen. I'd never get all my hours and all my expenses paid on these cases. Shoot, some of the judges used to only appoint people they were mad at it seems, and once you are appointed there is pretty much no getting out of these cases. I doubt these guys get paid anywhere near what they billed, and I don't doubt that they invested an enormous number of man hours from both the attorneys and their staff members, and they probably had huge expenses too. This seven weeks in trial only represents a very small fraction of the work performed on this case. Attorneys do not get rich handling court appointed criminal cases. In many cases what attorneys actually end up getting paid on these cases doesn't even cover their expenses. Things vary from state to state, but I wouldn't be surprised if the attorneys on this case actually collect far less than what they billed.


29 posted on 09/18/2006 9:42:53 AM PDT by TKDietz (")
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To: TKDietz
HI TK... Yeah I know exactly what you mean. I am presently helping a team of lawyers with a Capitol Case. You are absolutely right. I don't know where this money goes but it sure does NOT go to the attorneys. Some of it does but the ones I am working with are only getting a fraction of this total cost. I wonder who is getting all of the rest of the moneys. Thanks for sharing that. :-)
30 posted on 09/18/2006 10:49:02 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb
Justice delayed is justice denied and lawyers enriched.
31 posted on 09/18/2006 10:55:31 AM PDT by fella (Respect does not equal fear unless your a tyrant.)
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To: TKDietz
I think a lot of the moneys goes to things like getting a person to fly from NY to LA for a character witness and putting them up in a hotel and this and that. The medical examiner, psychs and all the OTHER people that are involved with these trials. Attorneys? HUH! NADA.... They work around the clock and they don't work by the hour on these court appointed cases, they work for a certain amount of moneys. The ones I am working with are so backlogged that they need help just staying caught up. It is ironic that the lay person has no clue about the justice system. They don't have a clue that just to execute ONE person cost over a million dollars. That is after all of the other millions that are spent on appeals. Life if prison is a much better and cost effective way to go for everyone involved. Just my opinion but from what I understand being on death row in some states is better than living out here in a condo. They have a lot more than the general population does, the public just has no clue.
32 posted on 09/18/2006 10:56:17 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb

IBTZ?


33 posted on 09/18/2006 10:56:50 AM PDT by jpl (Victorious warriors win first, then go to war; defeated warriors go to war first, then seek to win.)
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To: TKDietz

Do you do Capitol cases?


34 posted on 09/18/2006 11:47:59 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: HOTTIEBOY
a bullet costs $ .35

Let the con handload his own, that will cut costs.

35 posted on 09/18/2006 11:49:20 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (1 year guarantee against congenital defects.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

I don't think they let them have guns in prison :-)


36 posted on 09/18/2006 4:35:43 PM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb

I think lawyers should be treated like physicians. In order to use the government court house they must "have someone on call". The on call lawyers MUST take any indigent person case who presents to the court house without funds to pay for their own care. Let us see how they would like that. The government will pay said on call lawyer a set fee for global legal fees. Oh like 1,000.00 about what I get payed for 9 months of maternity care with deliver no matter the complications during that time and no matter vaginal delivery in 20 minutes or C/S for emergency fetal distress at 0300 with mother bleding out and anethesia 20 minutes away.


37 posted on 09/18/2006 6:43:05 PM PDT by therut
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To: Smoke Bomb

I've helped with a couple but I haven't been lead attorney on one yet. I'd just as soon never have any of those. They take up all your time. It's a little different where I live though. We don't have that many murders and there hasn't been a death penalty case tried in my county in years. All our trials are short too. I don't think there has ever been even a death penalty case in my county that has taken more than four days to try, at least none in the last fifteen years or so that I can remember. Some have been completed in one day, with the jury being selected in the morning and not being released until late in the evening when they finally have their verdict on sentencing. Still, an enormous amount of work is done on those cases during the months leading up to the trial. There are a lot of motions going back and forth, a lot of procedural matters and little hearings that need to be handled, just a lot of hoops specific to death penalty cases that lawyers have to jump through. I have over a hundred felony clients facing up to life in prison and I handle piles and piles of misdemeanor and juvenile cases. I can barely find the time to handle those. I'd never be able to handle my current caseload if I had any death penalty cases.


38 posted on 09/18/2006 8:02:21 PM PDT by TKDietz (")
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To: therut

Your entitled to your opinion. :-)


39 posted on 09/18/2006 8:03:39 PM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb; Darksheare; MikefromOhio; darkwing104
Some of us are having a difficult time ascertaining the precise gist of this diatribe. We do have opinions. Mine happens to involve ozone. Your mileage WILL vary.
40 posted on 09/18/2006 8:07:46 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (We shall never forget the atrocities of September 11, 2001.)
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To: TKDietz

Well I have a law degree and I am really good at helping attorneys get "caught up". If you need any help, maybe I'd be good for a few hours here and there. I know a lot about all of this (been working with the system for a long time) and yeah I know, the hoops can be a real challenge at times. Where are you at?


41 posted on 09/18/2006 8:08:01 PM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: ARealMothersSonForever
Oh man Ozone. Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh that one is a real challenge. Good luck.
42 posted on 09/18/2006 8:11:14 PM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb; Eaker
They don't have a clue that just to execute ONE person cost over a million dollars.

Not if you send the convict piggin' in Texas. We believe in a great tasting last meal, even a few cold beers or whatever. No muss, no fuss when it is all said and done. John Q. Public will not even spend one thin dime for the internment of the remains. Think of it as "totally organic, dude".

43 posted on 09/18/2006 8:13:56 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (We shall never forget the atrocities of September 11, 2001.)
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To: TKDietz

Another thing is you have to go through all the bull*** to be able to be on the Capitol attorney defense board. That in itself is about a week long 15 hours a day job to convince the board that you are indeed capable of handling such a case. This is interesting. I do have a couple of other articles that I am going to post that are even more interesting. The public has no clue how hard the law is to work with. It is indeed one of the hardest things to work with.


44 posted on 09/18/2006 8:35:25 PM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: therut

They do :-)


45 posted on 09/18/2006 8:37:05 PM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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To: Smoke Bomb
I think you are probably right about where most of that money went. Death penalty cases are different. There are a lot of procedural protections set up for defendants that are not available for defendants in other types of criminal cases. For instance, in every death penalty cases with an indigent defendant two death penalty certified attorneys must be appointed, and few attorneys are death penalty certified (I'm avoiding it myself). Most criminal defendants end up being deemed indigent and have counsel appointed for them, especially when it comes to felony cases. The percentage having attorneys appointed for them increases when it comes to death penalty cases, and in death penalty cases judges are a lot more willing to approve extraordinary expenses like expert witnesses, private investigators, airfare for witnesses and that sort of thing.

I'm a public defender so all of my clients are considered indigent. We almost never get to use expert witnesses or investigators, and we can forget about any of our judges signing off on anything like plane tickets or motel rooms for witnesses or anything like that. I spent several hours myself today on the other side of our county checking out a crime scene and talking to witnesses. That sort of thing takes up a lot of my time. Our budget is tiny. We run out of money for postage stamps every year. The prosecutors on the other hand are flush with cash. Their county budget dwarfs ours and they always seem to have several hundred thousand in asset forfeiture funds at their disposal, not to mention all of law enforcement to act as their investigators and their trained witnesses. You have to have a lot of money to match their war chest.

If you can't afford a lawyer, odds are precious little money will be spent defending you compared to what is spent building the case against you and prosecuting you, even if you are facing life in prison. Death penalty cases are a different animal though because of all the extra procedural protections, the mandatory appeal and the other bites at the apple people get in those cases, and so on. Trial judges will allow for a lot more money to be spent defending indigent defendants in those cases too because they don't want to get overturned on appeal. And I suppose they do worry a little more in those cases about people getting a fair trial, since lives are at stake. I think appellate judges worry a little more about that too when the punishment is death. In the end taxpayers spend an absolute fortune on every one of these cases and an incredible amount of time when you factor in all the people involved. I'm not opposed to the death penalty. In fact there are some instances when I really hope someone does have to pay the ultimate price for his crimes. But it's not cheap for us, that's for sure, and I doubt it does us any real good in the long run except perhaps in satisfying the need for revenge for some. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us do away with the death penalty in this country some time in the next few decades.
46 posted on 09/18/2006 9:05:17 PM PDT by TKDietz (")
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To: therut

"I think lawyers should be treated like physicians. In order to use the government court house they must "have someone on call". The on call lawyers MUST take any indigent person case who presents to the court house without funds to pay for their own care. Let us see how they would like that. The government will pay said on call lawyer a set fee for global legal fees. Oh like 1,000.00 about what I get payed for 9 months of maternity care with deliver"

That's pretty much the way it works in a lot of places. When I was in private practice I handled a lot of court appointed felony cases where I made considerably less than a grand, even if I might have twenty or thirty hours or more invested in the case. On lesser felonies in the lower end of the sentencing range they capped us at $250 in attorneys fees per case even in complex cases that involved a lot of work. You can't turn down these appointments either and it always takes forever to get paid. Things are different everywhere but for the most part these court appointed cases are not a good deal for lawyers.


47 posted on 09/18/2006 9:33:44 PM PDT by TKDietz (")
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To: TKDietz
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us do away with the death penalty in this country some time in the next few decades.

Except in Texas. If somebody kills a person in our great state, we will kill them back. Sad, yet true. Scads of lawyers will fight this. Such is the shame. I am not a huge proponent of the death penalty. My state legislature is. Therefore, it will be done. I have not heard a hue and cry about the federal case gainst McVeigh, by the way. That POS took the needle without a whimper. Where where you?

48 posted on 09/18/2006 11:40:03 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (We shall never forget the atrocities of September 11, 2001.)
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To: ARealMothersSonForever
Where was I? I was never upset about Timothy McVeigh being executed. I'm not a real opponent of the death penalty. I'm pretty much ambivalent about it.
49 posted on 09/19/2006 12:05:02 AM PDT by TKDietz (")
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To: TKDietz
Yeah I know about the two lawyer issue on Capitol cases. You know the sad thing here is the defendant in most cases is not the one that suffers. The people that want the defendant executed are the ones that do because they have so much anger built up inside that they can't wait for that plunger pusher. Bottom line is when and if they do get to the gurney the pain and all of that is over. They are no longer in any pain what-so-ever. I know some people on death row that "want" to be executed simply because they are sick of sitting on death row. They can't wait for that day to come. A lot of the public seems to think that the plunger pusher is the punishment. NOT! That is essentially the end of the misery. I do agree about the abolishment though. It is probably going to happen sooner than later. There are just too many cases in the US Supreme Court now that are leading that direction.
50 posted on 09/19/2006 9:27:55 AM PDT by Smoke Bomb
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