ACLU: Conceived In Tyranny

The majority of the ACLU membership is Christian.

They must be the self-hating variety, considering the ACLU's storied history of doing all it can to have the CHRIST removed from Christmas.

61 posted on 09/22/2006 1:36:05 PM PDT by Prime Choice (True Conservatives don't vote for Liberals just because they have an 'R' by their name.)

62 posted on 09/22/2006 1:37:59 PM PDT by weegee (Remember "Remember the Maine"? Well in the current war "Remember the Baby Milk Factory")

I was wondering if anyone knows of any news stories linking him to the ACLU? I've been trying to find one and keep coming up with nothing.

In 1995, Clinton’s Presidential Guidelines, Religious Expression in Public School, were originally drafted by the ACLU. You should be able to find it in Google archive.
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63 posted on 09/22/2006 1:38:55 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)

You like to say that the ACLU defends the Bill of Rights. What about this?

The Truth: The ACLU defends the parts of the Bill of Rights that are in line with its agenda. What about the second, ninth, and tenth amendment?

ACLU POLICY “The ACLU believes that the individual’s right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms.”ACLU

And they certainly don’t believe in States rights, constantly attempting to override the will of the people via the judicial branch.

64 posted on 09/22/2006 1:39:23 PM PDT by do the dhue (If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.)

To: mugs99; SvdByFaith

How the ACLU Stole Christmas - Again

by Jen Shroder
12/10/04

Last year in Washington, a seven-year-old asked, "Mom, why can’t we say ‘Christmas’ in our song?" It hurt Darla Dowell to tell her daughter, "Because Christmas is banned in public school."

Little was done last year so today the movement to strip all semblance of Christmas is stronger.

Christian children feel the cold slap of oppression. No Christmas. We are told that public school cannot allow preference to one religion. Yet children are asked to fast and pray to Allah, pretend they are Muslims, memorize the Quran and play Jihad. Why?

Because way back when Bill Clinton was President, he preferred to "negotiate" with Muslim leaders rather than answer terrorist bombings with our military. He colluded with the ACLU to present religious guidelines worded to manipulate court rulings at the ACLU's discretion, successfully censoring Christians and the Bible in public school while promoting every other faith, specifically Islam.

In 1995, Clinton’s Presidential Guidelines, Religious Expression in Public School, were originally drafted by the ACLU. These guidelines appeared to protect Christian rights, but for every single "religious expression," there is a clause of escape, a backdoor for secular groups to attack Christianity at will, and the ACLU has been happy to oblige.

Nadine Strossen, President of the ACLU — refers to Clinton's guidelines as the authority to support the ACLU's lawsuits restricting Christmas celebrations and removing Nativity scenes from public schools. The ACLU describes the "religious leaders" of Clinton's guidelines as committed to separation of church and state. This explains Strossen's haughty smile as she smugly said on the Lou Dobbs show, "All these religious groups agreed to it!"

Clinton knowingly presented these guidelines to America as drafted by "thirty-five religious groups." The truth is they were drafted by the American Muslim Council, ACLU, American Humanist Association, Americans United for Seperation (sic) of Church and State, many more recognizable secularist groups among a few Christian-sounding names.

Clinton disguised these guidelines with much profession of his Christian faith, but sincerity is lost when one examines the fruit. Lying under oath, dubious activities with staff, slipping in an ACLU document as written by "religious groups" is compounded when one remembers how Hillary demanded public funding for (brace yourself) a dung covered depiction of the Virgin Mary, with breasts of elephant dung, surrounded by genital pornography at the Brooklyn Museum. Together the Clintons met with Muslim groups in the White House so often it became commonplace. With this kind of history, it is not hard to believe Clinton betrayed America's Christian heritage and used our children as bargaining chips in negotiations with Islamic leaders.

Islamic organizations that remind Muslims it is their RELIGIOUS OBLIGATION (Dawa) to promulgate Islam are applauding Clinton and his religious guidelines today:

"In the U.S. one of the strongest arguments in favor of seeking religious accommodation for your child is President Bill Clinton's 1995 statement of principles addressing the extent to which religious expression and activity are permitted in public school. This was given to every school district in the United States." ~ SoundVision

Additionally, Clinton went beyond the ACLU guidelines and added:

"Students generally do not have a Federal right to be excused from lessons that may be inconsistent with their religious beliefs or practices."

Pay attention. There went religious freedom. Parents cannot opt out their children unless allowed by the school district which is often refused.

At the end of his term, then-President Clinton addressed Muslim leaders with a Ramadan message. With almost exact quotes from our children's textbooks today, Clinton openly lists his accomplishments to Muslims:

"As America's six-million-member Muslim community grows in numbers and prominence, Americans of every religious tradition are learning more about the origins and meaning of Islam. That on "the Night of Power," the Angel Gabriel appeared to the Prophet Muhammad and revealed to him the first verses of the Koran. That the Koran declares that Ramadan was the month Allah's words were sent down, and so should be spent in fasting." -Bill Clinton

What kind of promises were made behind closed doors to Muslim leaders? America's children certainly are learning Muslim religious beliefs as fact. Last year a U.S. District Judge Phyllis Hamilton dismissed a lawsuit objecting to the indoctrination practices of children taking Islamic names, dressing in robes and "becoming Muslims," reciting by heart, "In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful. Praise be to Allah, Lord of Creation, the Compassionate, the Merciful, King of Judgment day! You alone we worship, and to You alone we pray for help, Guide us to the straight path.”

America does not comprehend Muslim resolve to make America Islam. Suicide bombers have already demonstrated their willingness to kill and die for it. Islam's resolve to destroy America hinges on America's willingness to surrender our youth to Islam. Clinton gave them Dawa, our schools, our very children with his religious guidelines and cloaked it with a false inclusion of Christianity.

America, it is time to shout "ENOUGH." Do not let another year go by. Our children have been sold, we have lost our religious freedom, and a seven-year-old may not sing the word CHRISTMAS!

65 posted on 09/22/2006 1:44:33 PM PDT by do the dhue (If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.)

Ernst's support of the FBI was public, but he performed numerous favors on behalf of the Bureau secretly. I'm summing up information from various sources I've read that would take some time to track down, but I can cite a couple here that I have handy. Athan Theoharis comments a bit on some FBI files mentioning Ernst's relationship to the Bureau in his biography of J. Edgar Hoover, The Boss, p. 238f and 302-305; on 238 he calls Ernst "Hoover's mole in the liberal community". One website summarizes the genesis of Ernst's work for the FBI in the late 1930s:

Marilyn Bardsley, "J. Edgar Hoover"

In 1938 when Hoover was forty-three, the most important person in his life, his mother Annie Hoover, died. . .Incredibly enough, Morris Ernst, the head of the American Civil Liberties Union, became a staunch supporter of Hoover and his FBI during this period. A deal was struck between the two men whereby the ACLU promised to purge itself of any known Communists and Hoover would keep Congressman Martin Dies’ House Un-American Activities Committee away from the ACLU. . .

66 posted on 09/22/2006 1:56:07 PM PDT by Fedora

To many things the ACLU stands against that I believe in
Sure, there are many things national policy is against that I believe in. I would like nothing better than to see national leadership changed. I wish there was a Conservative organization defending the Constitution instead of hoping for a change in ACLU national policy...but there isn't.

My money goes to the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ).
When are we going to see them fight for our rights in court?

Regarding gun control laws, the official policy of the national ACLU argues that the Second Amendment is "intended mainly to protect the right of the states to maintain militias to assure their own freedom and security against the central government" and is not intended to "confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons."

The ACLU is like the ASPCA. There is the national leadership...political smoke and mirrors, and the state branches who actually decide which cases they are going to help on. The state branches often take cases that national leadership policy does not support. Gun control is a good example. This is an issue that is causing a real rift. The Nevada branch is heavily funded by Penn Jillette. He is a strong supporter of the 2nd and believes that all federal gun laws are unConstitutional. A 2nd amendment case in Nevada will be interesting to watch if one pops up.

The same applies with religion. I don't think the national leadership was pleased when the ACLU of Virginia defended Jerry Falwell...and won!

Here's some examples:

September 20, 2005: ACLU of New Jersey joins lawsuit supporting second-grader's right to sing "Awesome God" at a talent show.

August 4, 2005: ACLU helps free a New Mexico street preacher from jail.

December 22, 2004: ACLU of New Jersey successfully defends right of religious expression by jurors.

November 20, 2004: ACLU of Nevada supports free speech rights of evangelists to preach on the sidewalks of the strip in Las Vegas.

November 9, 2004: ACLU of Nevada defends a Mormon student who was suspended after wearing a T-shirt with a religious message to school.

August 11, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska defends church facing eviction by the city of Lincoln.

July 10, 2004: Indiana Civil Liberties Union defends the rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets.

June 3, 2004: Under pressure from the ACLU of Virginia, officials agree not to prohibit baptisms on public property in Falmouth Waterside Park in Stafford County.

May 11, 2004: After ACLU of Michigan intervened on behalf of a Christian Valedictorian, a public high school agrees to stop censoring religious yearbook entries.

March 25, 2004: ACLU of Washington defends an Evangelical minister's right to preach on sidewalks.

February 21, 2003: ACLU of Massachusetts defends students punished for distributing candy canes with religious messages.

October 28, 2002: ACLU of Pennsylvania files discrimination lawsuit over denial of zoning permit for African American Baptist church.

July 11, 2002: ACLU supports right of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at school.

The ACLU of Florida even went to court for Rush Limbaugh!
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67 posted on 09/22/2006 2:15:04 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)

ACLU=PERVERSION=DEMOCRATS=HOMOSEXUALS=ANTI-GOD=ANTI-US (Just to name a few..)

68 posted on 09/22/2006 2:18:38 PM PDT by ElPatriota (Let's not forget, we are all still friends despite our differences)

To: SvdByFaith; piasa

Does anyone know of any Bill Clinton/ACLU links?

Clinton's relationship to Morton Halperin would be one link that comes to my mind. Since the mid-1970s Halperin has worked with the CCR-linked element in the ACLU (tied to what was known as the ACLU's Political Surveilance Project, directed by CPUSA member Frank Donner) on various projects spun off from the Vietnam antiwar movement's legal crusade against the intelligence community. At one time Halperin headed the ACLU's Washington, DC office. In 1993, Clinton attempted to appoint Halperin to a newly-created position in the Department of Defense, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Democracy and Peacekeeping, but the nomination was withdrawn in the face of bipartisan Senate opposition to Halperin's radical background. One article summarizes Halperin's subsequent activity during the Clinton administration and after:

Lowell Ponte, "The ABC's of Media Bias"

. After the U.S. Senate refused to confirm Halperin, President Clinton appointed the controversial left-wing activist to several positions that required no Senate confirmation: Special Assistant to the President, Senior Director for Democracy at the National Security Council and consultant to the Secretary of Defense and to the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy.

In 1998, Halperin became director of policy planning for the U.S. State Department. During his tenure 15 State Department laptop computers containing highly classified intelligence information disappeared, one of them checked out to Halperin’s office. Others were punished for this serious security breach, but Halperin was not.

Morton Halperin in February 2002 became Director of the Open Society Policy Center and has worked closely ever since with its creator, eccentric billionaire international financier George Soros, who committed tens of millions of dollars in 2004 to a variety of efforts to defeat President Bush. One of these Soros-funded political efforts is the Center for American Progress (CAP), launched in summer 2003, one of the “Seven Sisters” pillars of the left’s “Shadow Government.”

69 posted on 09/22/2006 2:19:29 PM PDT by Fedora

70 posted on 09/22/2006 2:23:50 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)

To: Prime Choice

Lol...
When has the ACLU tried to remove Christ from Christmas?

71 posted on 09/22/2006 2:26:01 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)

Haven't read all your post yet but you said:

I wish there was a Conservative organization defending the Constitution instead of hoping for a change in ACLU national policy...but there isn't.

I don't believe the above is true. Have you checked ACLJ.ORG?

Going to finish your post now.

72 posted on 09/22/2006 2:50:22 PM PDT by do the dhue (If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.)

Again, I must say that all the good will not wash away the bad.

73 posted on 09/22/2006 2:52:58 PM PDT by do the dhue (If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.)

Christian children feel the cold slap of oppression. No Christmas
ROFL!
Nothing like a little sensationalism!

Americans United for Seperation (sic) of Church and State
The executive director of Americans United is the Rev. Barry Lynn. Lynn is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and the Church of Christ is responsible for the overwhelming majority of these lawsuits. Clinton colluded with the Church of Christ, and the ACLU drafted the religious guidelines for the United Church of Christ.

The United Church of Christ feels that government support of Christianity is bad for Christianity. All of this nonsense is one Christian sect against the other. Christians themselves cannot agree on the issue and are generating these lawsuits while they blame the ACLU and the "secularists".

A good example is the picture of Jesus removed from a hospital. Christians were outraged that the picture was removed due to controversy. But displaying a picture of a Hebrew Jesus instead of the Northern European Jesus causes just as much controversy. These church and state problems arose from Christians themselves, not from outside.

Hebrew Jesus

74 posted on 09/22/2006 2:59:35 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)

You have got to be kidding me. Why don't you do a cursory search of every time they've tried to have nativities removed and every song that mentions the birth of Christ struck out of every "winter celebration" (sic).

I'm not sure whether you're simply ignorant, a troll, or are being deliberately obtuse.

75 posted on 09/22/2006 3:08:21 PM PDT by Prime Choice (True Conservatives don't vote for Liberals just because they have an 'R' by their name.)

To: Prime Choice

Where I live I see the nativities everywhere I go every Christmas. If you're talking about schools, that has been done because of the Church of Christ lawsuits and they are Christians. Incidentally, the local public school in the community where I live had a nativity scene last Christmas...No complaints. You can bring up the occasional crackpot Atheist, but I'm not aware of any crackpot case that has won in court. If you're referring to Bill O'Reilly's Christmas claims last year, it turned out that he made it up...just like his claim of being on AlQueda's hit list this year.

76 posted on 09/22/2006 7:28:13 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)

I don't believe the above is true. Have you checked ACLJ.ORG?

I'm very familiar with Pat's ACLJ. A brief here, a brief there...send mo' money!
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77 posted on 09/22/2006 7:34:58 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)

To: churchillbuff; All

I believe I heard on Rush that one of the lawyers who testified that he was transgressed upon (in the suit in Michegan that ruled against Bush's wiretapping) was

a muslim

and was a presenting atty. for the ACLU in the suit.

He claimed that his rights as a citizen were harmed because his relatives were cautious on the telephone when they called from Dirttown.

78 posted on 09/22/2006 9:29:48 PM PDT by bitt ("And an angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm.")

It's about the free exercise of Religion. If you wish to display a Hebrew or Northern European Yeshua, then have fun and express your religion peacefully. Have fun debating it peacefully. This is what makes our country great. The bottom line remains that the 1st Amendment protects the free exercise of religion. And I believe that it should protect the free exercise thereof on or off Public property.

79 posted on 09/22/2006 9:33:06 PM PDT by do the dhue (If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.)

If you wish to display a Hebrew or Northern European Yeshua, then have fun and express your religion peacefully

I didn't post that pic for fun. I posted it to make a point. That picture outraged Christians here on FR. I honestly don't know why a Hebrew Jesus should offend Christians, but it does. It's the same situation with these lawsuits. One group of Christians is offended by another group of Christians...and secularists are blamed by both groups.

The bottom line remains that the 1st Amendment protects the free exercise of religion. And I believe that it should protect the free exercise thereof on or off Public property.
I agree with you...As long as it's free expression and not indoctrination. I see nothing wrong with a kid praying, pictures of Jesus, the Ten Commandments or nativity scenes. I think those who are easily offended by any of this need to lighten up and get a life.
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80 posted on 09/22/2006 10:21:42 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)

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