Posted on 10/07/2006 6:40:10 AM PDT by NYer
NEW YORK - A new 10-nation survey of Pentecostal and charismatic Christians, considered the fastest-growing stream of Christianity worldwide, shows they are deeply influencing the Roman Catholic and mainstream Protestant churches and are poised to make a big impact on global affairs. p>The poll released Thursday by the Washington-based Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life found that "spirit-filled" Christians, who speak in tongues and believe in healing through prayer, comprise at least 10 percent of the population in nine of the 10 surveyed countries.
The study also found that followers are more willing than previously thought to bring their traditional values into public debates, potentially shaping government policies in the years ahead.
The surveys were conducted over the spring and summer in Brazil, Chile, Guatemala, Kenya, Nigeria, South Africa, India, the Philippines, South Korea" /> Researchers polled both Pentecostals, who form their own denominations such as the Assemblies of God, and charismatics, who have adopted some Pentecostal beliefs but remain members of traditional Protestant and Catholic churches.
The survey estimated that Pentecostals and charismatics together comprise at least half the population of Brazil, Guatemala and Kenya, and 44 percent of the Philippines.
They make up about one-third of the population of South Africa and Chile and nearly one-quarter of Nigerians and U.S. residents. The figure for South Korea is smaller, at 11 percent. In India, the poll was limited to three states with large Christian populations, so a national estimate could not be made.
The study found Pentecostal beliefs have a strong hold in major churches in many countries.
In the traditionally Catholic nations of Brazil, Guatemala and the Philippines, charismatics are a larger share of the population than Pentecostals.
In six of the 10 countries, Pentecostals and charismatics together make up the majority of the overall Protestant population, according to the survey.
The Pentecostal movement, which began a century ago in Los Angeles, spread quickly overseas because of its adaptability to local cultures, whose indigenous beliefs often include healings and casting out of evil spirits, and because of the exuberance of its worship.
While Pentecostals and charismatics are known for speaking in tongues, the survey found respondents were more likely to say that they had personally witnessed or experienced other signs of the Holy Spirit, such as a healing through prayer or a direct revelation from God.
The majority of Pentecostals in every nation surveyed except South Korea and India believed religious groups should express their views on social and political issues. In seven of the 10 countries, 70 percent of charismatics agreed.
"These are folks for whom the world of spirit is remarkably alive ... but that in no way diminishes their commitment to social justice for the poor, for instance, or a role for government in meeting those needs," said Luis Lugo, director of the Pew Forum.
The polls were conducted by phone in the U.S., and in person overseas, with margins of error ranging from plus or minus 4 percentage points to 9 percentage points for some subgroups.
The polls in Brazil, South Africa and South Korea focused on urban areas.
I could not agree more. However, I think that fear cannot drive the church. Fear of being "too emotional" has caused many churches to err on the side of conservativism. They are so afraid to be "driven" by emotion that they reign in the movement of the spirit so much that the service becomes one that is man controlled instead of spirit controlled.
"Baptiscostal"
That was very clever. ;o)
I like it!
It will indeed happen -- when Jesus Christ returns and then only! This is part of the problem. As long as sin and the god of this world exist; sickness, disease, pain and suffering of the human race and body will continue (even among God-fearing and loving Christians). When Jesus returns and death is swallowed up, then all will be healed. To believe otherwise is to be deceived my friend and led astray by those who "promise freedom," but are themselves in bondage to "millenium madness," in the hear and now -- been there, done that. I certainly hope to be physically alive when the "trumpet sounds," I hope to be one of those "who meet the Lord in the air." Until then, I'll be satisfied with the truth discovered in His word and His "sufficient grace" not the "withcraft of some self-anointed or demon appointed guru," claiming to be a "minister of righteousness" and "masquerading as an angel of light." I understand the power of God and His ability to move in miraculous ways. I would not be here today but for a miraclous deliverance and the grace of God in Jesus Christ. I will not place God "in a box," however; I will believe that He cannot lie and work contrary to His written Word.
You're gonna bring tears to my eyes.
Thanks tons for your kind words.
Welllllllllll, he's never learned how to live any differently. And, he's more proud and stubborn than he seems able to admit though he only shows such to me most of the time.
I don't know what loving me means to him. Most of the time, I think it means doing the good, right Christian thing in my behalf--as much out of his love for my mother as anything.
Most of my tears since being back in the States have been a shocking spontaneous surprise trying to talking to him and suddenly an issue comes up of some implied or potential increased dialogue or possibility of closer relationship. I think he feels that the tears are bewildering, sissy, weak, something like that.
I don't know that his personality and background ever allowed him much chance to understand or know me in all my 54 years of relationship with him. Have tried hard the last 25 or so. He seemed to respect and understand a lot about my ministry there when they visited Taipei at my arranging.
I don't know what all the factors are in such.
Loving him is not hard. Expressing it in ways he'll tolerate is.
But then, I've usually been accused of trying to channel a fire hose of such through a drinking straw. Sigh.
Your sensitivity, discernment, understanding and compassion in your reply on this are super appreciated and super timely this evening. Last evening I learned some of those things for the first time. I'd felt he was taking things out on me but hadn't dared to really settle on that thought and put such words to it. When the neighbor he respects like a surrogate son put such words to it, I realized it was obviously true.
He's still pretty sharp at 84--unless he's very tired. Then he can sound irrational.
Thanks soooooooooo much for your caring response. Brings warmth and encouragement in a currently fairly dry land. Greatly appreciated.
Thanks tons for prayers for God's Peace. Have been told convincingly with The Lord's confirmation, that The Lord wants me to REST MORE IN HIM. Not sure how to do that better. Prayers for that would be appreciated, too.
LUB,
You know...as we walk out a spirit filled life, we have to learn discernment. I am sure that the first sermon you preached was not as flowing and polished as ones you preach now. You were learning to hear from God, to discern his direction. You were learning how to rely on His leading, how to know what to include and exclude, how to keep your personal thoughts out and preach His message, not yours.
I believe it is the same for the gifts of the spirit. The Bible tells us that while we are on the earth, "we see through the glass darkly". We are still human. We still deal with our flesh. But to say that I will not allow myself to be used by God until I know that I will be perfect, would preclude any of us ever stepping out in faith.
God fearing Germans
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No . . . the point has been well made that the bulk of those hiding under the veneer of a shallow Christian label were essentially agnostics and worse.
Statism was also part of the endemic German character, gestalt etc.
BTW, An allergy to spiritual facts, factors, issues, realities is no more rational and no better than an out of balance, demonized obsession with perversions of such, imho.
You'd do well to pray to the Lord for your assurance; no 'priest' could possibly have such discernment; only the Lord himself can discern a man's soul.
A morality law here, a morality law there...
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I find that a shallow straw dog, a red herring.
1. Yes, it's immoral to run a red light and kill a mother and her toddler and unborn child.
2. Yes, it's immoral to murder one's parents, spouse, children, friends, even strangers.
3. Yes, stealing money from family, friends, employers, strangers is immoral, too.
4. Stuffing ballot boxes is immoral.
5. Cutting and stitching on people without medical training and license is also usually rather immoral.
6. Driving drunk is immoral.
7. Kidnapping and raping an 8 year old is immoral.
Said things are also illegal.
Some things are worth laws. Laws don't force hearts to change. They do HELP shape public behavior. In a grossly immoral society, that will not be enough. In a moral one, it is.
As the founders of our Republic asserted on several occasions, a culture not founded on Scripture would not be able to function with our founding documents and structure. It would collapse, disintegrate.
The globalist agents are rapidly proving that increasingly true.
Agree, we will never be perfect in a practical sense in this life. Thank God, we are sanctified and justified by His grace. That's the beautiful thing about the gospel, He takes us and uses us as we are. I teach that every Thursday evening in our Addiction & Deliverance ministry. Imagine this, we see God working and helping alcoholics and drug addicts find freedom in Christ. Why, you can even find a bottle of virgin olive oil in our Southern Baptist pulpit, not to mention we use it on occasion.
I will believe that He cannot lie and work contrary to His written Word.
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Nothing about I Cor 12-14 operating in our era is contrary to God's Word regardless of how many mangle such efforts or even regardless of counterfeits hiding under once kosher labels.
Deutsche Christen was charismatic.
I'm not a Christian but if I were, I could do a better job defending Christianity than anyone on this thread has done.
Maybe you guys should think about stopping the excuses and try to point out how Christianity has overcome the mistakes of the past and how you'll ensure to the rest of us that this will never happen again.
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"Charismatic" in what sense?
Not in the authentic, balanced current sense.
Christianity has overcome rather overwhelmingly in lots of arenas and groups the worst of it's past.
AND some groups will always . . . this side of Armageddon . . . pervert the best and holiest wherever and of whatever sort. That's the job of demons and demonized humans. No surprise there.
Blanket rage, outrage, wholesale distortions of fact etc. such that the biases seem exceedingly blinding and clueless is not very impressively persuasive, either.
You know...as we walk out a spirit filled life, we have to learn discernment. I am sure that the first sermon you preached was not as flowing and polished as ones you preach now. You were learning to hear from God, to discern his direction. You were learning how to rely on His leading, how to know what to include and exclude, how to keep your personal thoughts out and preach His message, not yours.
I believe it is the same for the gifts of the spirit. The Bible tells us that while we are on the earth, "we see through the glass darkly". We are still human. We still deal with our flesh. But to say that I will not allow myself to be used by God until I know that I will be perfect, would preclude any of us ever stepping out in faith.
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What an extremely fitting and wonderful analogy.
It has always amazed me how few have been able/willing to see the truth of it in countless past dialogues.
I have read a lot of books on this subject, and I know that Hitler used the Church, and that many cooperated with him. Having said that, I know he wasn't a real believer. A part you are missing is that he also brought prosperity back to Germany at the time, and as usual, the love of money was the root of all evil, so the citizens were willing to follow him for that reason as well.
The part many don't get here, including me, is your sort of veiled comments that Pentecostals are going to do the same sort of thing.
I would hope that most of us know that we don't have a theocracy government nor do we wish to have one.
There is a concerted effort in this country right now to shut up Christians, and we are the ones being persecuted. Are you aware of that? I am sorry you seem to fear those of us who believe, but perhaps you are listening to those who are determined to make sure that God is totally removed from our vocabulary in this country. I don't know if that is the case since you are being very stealth in some of your comments. If that is what you mean, just say so. We can deal with it and maybe alleviate some of your obvious fears.
I know I am speaking for myself, but I certainly don't think this country is going to legislate moral laws as you say, in fact, we are going the other direction entirely !
That is awesome...virgin olive oil...who would have guessed!
It sounds like you have a wonderful ministry there in Florida, is it? Trading addictions and bondage for freedom in Christ is something we all have done in one form or another. Alcholics and drug addicts have nothing on those of us raised in church in that respect!
Welllllllll PTL and pass the ammunition for that!
Truly.
There is a concerted effort in this country right now to shut up Christians, and we are the ones being persecuted. Are you aware of that? I am sorry you seem to fear those of us who believe, but perhaps you are listening to those who are determined to make sure that God is totally removed from our vocabulary in this country. I don't know if that is the case since you are being very stealth in some of your comments. If that is what you mean, just say so. We can deal with it and maybe alleviate some of your obvious fears.
I know I am speaking for myself, but I certainly don't think this country is going to legislate moral laws as you say, in fact, we are going the other direction entirely !
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EXTREMELY WELL SAID AND YOU CAN SPEAK FOR ME ON SUCH ANY TIME.
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
The Corinthians were guilty of being childish, especially with gifts -- they did not understand the truth about them. They were ignorant and often babbled like children incoherantly thinking they were saying something. They did not understand the tongues of Pentecost were "known languages," verses incoherant babble. Same problem many are having today with regards to tongues and other gifts of the Spirit. God also appointed apostles at one time as stated in Corinthians, however; Jesse Duplantis was not one of them, nor any others claiming to be today are -- for they are unable to demonstrate the signs and wonders that the genuine apostles displayed. This was the purpose of many of the gifts -- to validate the works of the apostles and prophets who were used by God to establish the church and complete the Canon.
Unfortunately, some people, instead of being humbled by God working through them, somehow feel a sense of pride. I think that tends to make others feel that those whom God has used are somehow holier than they. This inherently produces defensiveness and a critical view that is extremely counterproductive. It is paramount that leadership educate the congregation on what the gifts are and aren't...and those whom God is using also remember that he has also spoken through a bush and a donkey.
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