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Rice: Palestinians deserve to live free of 'occupation'[at an event of pro-Palestinian group]
Haaretz ^ | 10/12/2006 | AP

Posted on 10/11/2006 6:46:16 PM PDT by Sabramerican

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To: Blowtorch
We need a respected conservative leader who can really communicate and extend his ideas without stumbling every other sentence

We need another Reagan.
61 posted on 10/12/2006 10:39:37 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God." (Psalm 53:1))
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To: Sabramerican
I think you are right. His holding hands with the Saudi official down at the ranch was certainly bizarre. I cannot remember any President in my lifetime who has held hands with a grown man. It says, "I am the lesser of the two." I think the closeness between the Bush family and the Saudis is wrong. But I also think that Bush is trying to secure the oil for future generations. This does not excuse his behavior, however. There is something incredibly weird going on with our President...also that remark about Putin, seeing into his eyes and trusting him. Is our President an emotional child?
62 posted on 10/12/2006 10:42:51 AM PDT by The Westerner
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To: Mamzelle

Even under your interpretation of the CT race, I don't know what it has to do with Rice's anti Israel statements made specifically at a PRO Palestinian organization having members we have all seen on TV being anti Israel and anti US.

Lieberman stands out as a Democrat who supports the Iraq war, for that he was targeted. Not because of his support for Israel- shared with many other Senators of either party.

This isn't about Democrats.

If you are saying that Rice and the Bush Administration feels it can spit in the face of the pro-Israel community, Jews, and Bush's base, Israel supporting Evangelical Christians, you may be right.

See also another thread about the Administration's attitude towards their base.

And then there is retirement looming in a couple of years and the Saudis know how to reward friends.


63 posted on 10/12/2006 10:43:09 AM PDT by Sabramerican (Bush Doctrine- Old: Fight terrorists. New: Cease fire with terrorists.)
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To: Sabramerican
re: This isn't about Democrats.))) Well, 76% of American Jews vote Democrat, and the DNC is less supportive of Israel every day. I don't hear much scolding of the Dems. The Dems are more and more owned by the Progressives, and controlled in a very startling way by George Soros, like he's cornering another currency market. The progressives don't seem to need to be drunk to be antisemite.

As for what it has to do with Rice, it goes back to the first question I posed. Without significant, vocal, unified support from American Jews, where will come the pro-Israel ideology and leadership in the US? Who's supposed to carry this responsibility?

If you thought all Leiberman's problems were about Iraq, you should have been reading more of Lamont's progressive backers.

With the antisemitism, the anti-Israelism that underpinned Leiberman's defeat, I assert that it is now politically safe to be anti-Israel. In my lifetime, it has never been politically safe to be anti-Israel in either party.

Whatever "spitting" is going on, it is now very probable that we have seen our last pro-Israel administration.

64 posted on 10/12/2006 10:54:37 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

You forget that after all Lieberman will likely win.

The Bush Administration is proving that if your issue is Israel you may as well vote Democrat.

I'm not ready to believe all future Administrations will be anti Israel.

Just those with family and business ties to the Saudis and an honorary family member named Bandar Bush.

But for all future Administrations I will be on the lookout for that telltale sign- hand holding with Arab tyrants.


65 posted on 10/12/2006 11:06:13 AM PDT by Sabramerican (Bush Doctrine- Old: Fight terrorists. New: Cease fire with terrorists.)
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To: Sabramerican
re: You forget that after all Lieberman will likely win. )))

Right now he's leading. But the pro-Israel Jews and the pro-Isreal "otherwise" have already lost quite a bit of clout by being dumped by NE Dems. Watch for the Conn black vote to go heavily Lamont. And if Leiberman does win, watch closely what the Democrats will have to say about that.

66 posted on 10/12/2006 11:12:01 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Sabramerican

Once again, this unqualified Arabist shows herself to be as much a stooge of our enemies as was Madeline Albright--herself, like Condi, also a mere academic who had no business being named to such a critical post. Condoleeza Rice continues to undermine this Administration with her tinkering on behalf of Arab Muslim terrorists. She got a general pass from the right when she undermined Israel's resolve in Lebanon (a few commentators like Tammy Bruce and Glenn Beck slammed her for it). Now she is at it again. Rice is a disgrace and must be removed. She should have been canned with Tenet on 9/12/2001. Now is better than never. Dump Condi now.


67 posted on 10/12/2006 11:16:20 AM PDT by montag813
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To: Sabramerican
"There could be no greater legacy for America,"

If she thinks creating a terror state is the greatest legacy America could have, she must be removed from office immediately. Disgusting.

68 posted on 10/12/2006 11:17:29 AM PDT by montag813
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To: Mamzelle; Sabramerican

American Jews stand by Israel
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1678564/posts

What the British Jews think of Israel's war
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1678566/posts

Contrary to the canard, most Jewish people are on Israel's side.

Our government is trying to please anti-American Europeans--especially those in England and Italy. Superior volks here, in the USA, want to continue vacationing in those places, until their illusions during those vacations are saturated with real turbans, veils and headdresses.


69 posted on 10/12/2006 11:18:45 AM PDT by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: Sabramerican

Remember who was Condi's mentor: Brent Scowcroft. There is no greater Saudi stooge in the Bush Family circle than Scowcroft.


70 posted on 10/12/2006 11:18:49 AM PDT by montag813
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To: familyop
Well, the illegal aliens here in the USA don't even do suicide bombings at kids' parties.

Just a matter of time. 20 years perhaps. Our hypocrisy in vivisecting Israel will come home to roost with AZTLAN terrorist.

71 posted on 10/12/2006 11:21:03 AM PDT by montag813
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To: familyop
Well, the illegal aliens here in the USA don't even do suicide bombings at kids' parties.

Just a matter of time. 20 years perhaps. Our hypocrisy in vivisecting Israel will come home to roost with AZTLAN terrorists.

72 posted on 10/12/2006 11:21:08 AM PDT by montag813
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To: Dog Gone
We don't have any occupied territory.

Have you been living under a rock? Ever hear of MECha? Of Aztlan? Of La Raza? Did you not see the poll which shows that 80% of Mexicans believe the U.S. is illegally occupying Mexican land? If you want to live in your dreamworld, don't accuse other FReepers who live in reality of insanity.

73 posted on 10/12/2006 11:23:51 AM PDT by montag813
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To: montag813
Just a matter of time. 20 years perhaps. Our hypocrisy in vivisecting Israel will come home to roost with AZTLAN terrorists. Think they know each other?

See the next post, Aztlan is watching.

74 posted on 10/12/2006 11:34:11 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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La Voz de Aztlan Editorial
Los Angeles, Alta California
May 22, 2001

La Raza as Palestinians

There are great similarities between the political and economic condition of the Palestinians in occupied Palestine and that of La Raza in the southwest United States. Fortunately, the struggle for equality by La Raza has not reached the level of violence that is now being experienced in the Holy Land and hopefully it never will. Some ominous signs, however, are manifesting themselves in Los Angeles County that may be a harbinger of things to come. Widespread areas in southern California have recently experienced ambushes, shootings and assassinations of police officers by young disaffected Raza youths who are routinely harassed by special police units like the now disbanded CRASH units of the Los Angeles Police Department.

The similarities are many. The primary one of course is the fact that both La Raza and the Palestinians have been displaced by invaders that have utilized military means to conquer and occupy our territories. The takeover of our respective lands by foreign elements occurred 100 years apart. For La Raza it happened in 1848 when Mexico lost the southwest at the end of the Mexican American War and the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidlago. For the Palestinians it occurred in 1948 when the Zionist Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum and signed the "Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel" on the day in which the British Mandate over a Palestine expired. The effects of the occupation policies over time , 153 years for La Raza de Aztlan and 53 years for the Palestinians, have been eerily similar.

The primary similarity has been the gradual taking of our lands by the invading enemy. La Raza lost immense acreage of land in the form of Ranchos through chicanery and through the establishment of property taxes that were designed to relieve La Raza of our rightful ownership to our land. For the Palestinians, the usurping of their land has been a similar process. The Zionist Israeli government has established laws that have gradually stripped legal ownership of land from the Palestinians. In addition, hordes of Jewish settlers have shamefully moved in to occupy Palestinian territories and push out Palestinian families. This process in Palestine has been backed up by brutal police and military might.

Palestinian mothers crying over their imprisoned sonsAnother of the most glaring similarities is the incarceration policies of youths by the dominant culture. Presently, the survival of the Palestinian people is being threaten by the selective incarceration of the bravest, strongest and most productive members of the group. Like in the southwest and specially in Alta California, the number of "incarceration centers" built by the Israeli government in occupied territories to imprison targeted youths is growing at an alarming rate. The Zionists call the imprisonment of thousands of Palestinian youths who have dared to resist the occupation of their lands "administrative detention". The detention centers are mere barb-wired compounds where Palestinian youths are held up to six months without a trial.

The incarceration rate of La Raza in the southwest U.S., and specially the incarceration of Raza youths, is also having the effect of destroying the family structure of our communities. In many cases, children are being left fatherless in the critical stage of their development. Targeting by the police of Raza youths is similar to the targeting of Palestinian young males by the Israeli Armed Forces. In the City of Los Angeles, for example, special neighborhood assault police teams called CRASH Units were organized by the outgoing mayor to target groups of Raza youths that reside in certain barrios of the city. The CRASH Units have left a trail of devastation unprecedented in modern law enforcement history. Countless Raza youth were framed, savagely beaten, tortured and unjustly imprisoned. At this very moment, there is an ongoing trial of a young Mexican youth accused of ambushing and killing a CRASH police officer in 1998. The youth testified to his innocence just this week and his attorney is making the case that the real shooters were other organized youths who planned and carried out the "military type ambush" of the officer as an act of self-defense of their community from constant harassment by the CRASH LAPD Units.

Palestinian traitor on way to a firing squadSimilarities between La Raza and the Palestinians also extends to the age old problem presented by traitors and collaborators. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, like many other occupations in history, could not have continued over the past 53 years without the help of a network of Palestinian collaborators. The Israeli army is just not big enough to police effectively the 1.5 million Palestinians under military occupation. The majority of the Palestinian collaborators, as with La Raza, are those who are reasonably satisfied with their position in society, and they come predominantly from the middle classes. They are joined by opportunists from the lower classes who see in the occupation a dislocation of society that might enable them to move ahead and improve their position. In both cases, the collaborators put narrow self-interest ahead of any obligation to their neighbors and display confidence in the permanence of the occupation.

The Zionists have relied on well-placed Palestinians, who in turn have recruited opportunists to serve the occupation in secret as well as out in the open. There is no doubt as to the identity of the open collaborators. They are the Israeli appointed mayors, mukhtars, and others who enforce the rules of the occupation. They carry Israeli-supplied weapons and threaten those who challenge their Israeli-given authority in any way. Their identities are thus well known to the whole community.

The same is true with La Raza in the southwest U.S. There is a group of "vendido" corrupt politicos that are being utilized as "occupation administrators" and who are selling out the interests of La Raza for their own personal benefit. These so called "elected" representatives have no real power and only serve the interests of the real rulers. For example, in California we have an "elected" Lieutenant Governor by the name of Cruz Bustamante. He is supposed to be the second most powerful politician in state government, yet he is totally useless to our community and has done nothing to improve the lives of La Raza who are increasingly having to endure tremendous economic hardships and problems in housing and health. He is a mere figurehead with a brown face and an Hispanic last name.

The same is true with many other Hispanic politicos and Hispanic leaders of national Hispanic mainstream organizations. Another example is a politico in California by the name of Tony Villar (aka Antonio Villargairosa) who is presently a candidate for Mayor of Los Angeles. It is a well known fact within La Raza that "Tony" is simply a lackey for immensely powerful Jewish interests in Los Angeles, but what La Raza does not know is that the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith (ADL) arranged and paid for Antonio Villargairosa to go on an indoctrination trip to Israel in 1999 (B'nai B'rith means "Sons of the Covenant"). The ADL is a powerful Jewish organization with a multi-million dollar per year budget that has very close ties with the Zionists and the Israeli intelligence agency called the MOSSAD. The ADL has been repeatedly accused of spying for Israel and breaking into private files of American citizens who hold pro-Palestinian views.

Hispanic politicos are not the only collaborators. Last week, Raul Yzaguirre, Director of the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), was ordered to write a letter of condemnation against La Voz de Aztlan by his Jewish handlers because we wrote an editorial that the American Jewish Establishment did not like. Raul Yzaguirre has very strong ADL connections as well. In a San Diego Union-Tribune article published in 1993, Raul Yzaguirre was quoted as saying in a speech at a ADL Luncheon, "I am an Hispanic Jew and part of the same familia". He was given a standing ovation and Howard P. Berkowitz immediately stood up and loudly proclaimed monetary assistance to the NCLR. There is no doubt that many of our so called leaders are selling La Raza short for their own benefit. Every man has a price and the wealthy Zionists use this trait of human nature very effectively.

The political and economic condition of La Raza and of the Palestinians are the same, the only differences are ones of degree and duration. The occupation of Aztlan has lasted for 153 years so that the manifestations of the effects on La Raza will differ from those on the Palestinians only because La Raza has already gone through many of the injustices the Palestinians are having to presently endure. The other difference is one of degree. The degree of hatred against the Palestinians by the Zionists is great and runs very deep. Their is no hesitation by the Israeli police or armed forces to bomb enclaves where Palestinians reside. In Aztlan, we have had few sporadic riots where only a few Mexicans have been killed as occurred in East Los Angeles during the National Chicano Moratorium March against the Vietnam War or as occurred during World War II when hordes of U.S. Military personnel invaded East Los Angeles and savagely beat up Mexican Zoot-Suiters. However, with our increasing population and the nervousness of some white hatemongers in the fringes of society like Glenn Spencer of American Patrol, the situation is extremely volatile. All it takes is one little spark at the right time and all hell could break loose. Raza, let us be prepared in case we have to rise and defend our families and our community.

Palestinian Martyr Fares Udah

The following commentary on the above picture of a Palestinian youth facing down the Israeli Defense Forces is by Delinda Curtiss Hanley of the Washington Report:

A small, solitary figure in slacks and a white shirt stood up to a column of 17 tanks heading to Beijing’s Tiananmen Square on June 5, 1989. The previous day’s massacre had killed 155 Chinese students camped in the square and wounded some 65 workers, students and children.

As the first enormous tank swerved right to miss the young man, later identified as 19-year-old student Wang Weilin, the boy moved right to block the lead tank. When the powerful machine next turned left, Wang moved left, too. Finally he climbed up onto the tank and reportedly said to the driver, “Why are you here? My city is in chaos because of you.”

Newspapers around the world declared that one lone “Everyman” had defiantly stood up to the People’s Republic of China and its massive arsenal of weapons to become a symbol of Chinese freedom. When newsmen asked Chinese leader Jiang Zemin a year later what had happened to the young man, Jiang replied, with some uncertainty, that Wang had not been killed.

On Oct. 29, 2000, another courageous youth faced down a tank—this time on the outskirts of Gaza City. As young Fares Udah defiantly hurled his rock at the menacing Israeli tank, Associated Press photographer Laurent Rebours took a photo that may come to symbolize the Palestinian “Everyman.”

Tragically, we know with dreadful certainty what happened to Fares Udah, the fearless 13-year-old boy on the cover of the Washington Report’s December 2000 issue. On Nov. 8, nine days after his picture was taken and while the Washington Report with his cover photo was still being printed, Fares was shot in the neck and killed by Israel Defense Force troops.

Real Player Video of the Murder of a Palestinian Father and Son by the Israeli Defense Forces

La Raza Unida Party with Yasser Arafat


75 posted on 10/12/2006 11:35:23 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: familyop
You need some evidence for your statement that Israel belongs to the generic Arabs and is occupied by the Jews.

Where did I make that statement?

76 posted on 10/12/2006 12:06:41 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: montag813

Mexicans can think whatever they want. Their opinion does not change reality.

If I think the house you're living in is actually mine, but your name is on the deed, are you living in occupied territory and living in a dreamworld?


77 posted on 10/12/2006 12:14:14 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone; familyop
Except that your analogy is ridiculous...I mean really stupid...We don't have any occupied territory...Illegal aliens are a problem, but to compare them to the Israeli/Palestinian situation is totally asinine...Please ask the moderators to remove your post as temporary insanity.

The radical wing of the Aztlan would disagree with you. See post 75. They've identified with the palestinians for decades. Not the meeting with Arafat, a Marxist terrorist, twenty five years ago in Beirut. Tourists in a war zone? Or might they have hoped to learn a bit from Yasser, a master of organization and destabilization.

It's fair to say there's no core of radical Aztlanians ready to carry out attacks. The best they can do is the occasional disruptive demonstration. But if you're familiar with their history, the potential for violence is there. At this point in time, they feel they can acheive their goals other ways, through population growth. Also an erstwhile strategy of the palestinians.

78 posted on 10/12/2006 12:15:46 PM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: Nachum
Sorry, Nachum, but you are hyperventilating here.

Linking Rice to George Bush Sr. via George W. Bush is just an association game you are playing. And to claim that the comment that Bush Sr. made "led directly to attacks on Jews in the US" in simply false. I invite you to prove it if you think otherwise.

To think that one poorly chosen word used by Rice "will embolden every Jew hater from here to Indonesia" is engaging in hyperbole.

Regrettably, you sound like a shill for the Democrats.

79 posted on 10/12/2006 12:35:15 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: SJackson

I don't make a habit of letting the views of radical nutcases define reality for me.

The borders of the United States are accepted by every government in the world, including that of Mexico.

The situation in Israel is different. While most countries recognized the 1967 border of Israel as the line where Israel was sovereign, some countries didn't even acknowledge the existence of the country at all.

When Israel captured all of the west bank and the Sinai, it didn't annex them. Clearly that land was something that could only be termed "occupied territory", even by the Israelis.

There is no analogy to that in the situation with the wackjobs in Aztlan.


80 posted on 10/12/2006 12:37:07 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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