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A Dissent: The Case Against Faith
Newsweek ^ | 11/13/06 | Sam Harris

Posted on 11/10/2006 5:53:21 AM PST by presidio9

Despite a full century of scientific insights attesting to the antiquity of life and the greater antiquity of the Earth, more than half the American population believes that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This is, incidentally, about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue. Those with the power to elect presidents and congressmen—and many who themselves get elected—believe that dinosaurs lived two by two upon Noah's Ark, that light from distant galaxies was created en route to the Earth and that the first members of our species were fashioned out of dirt and divine breath, in a garden with a talking snake, by the hand of an invisible God.

This is embarrassing. But add to this comedy of false certainties the fact that 44 percent of Americans are confident that Jesus will return to Earth sometime in the next 50 years, and you will glimpse the terrible liability of this sort of thinking. Given the most common interpretation of Biblical prophecy, it is not an exaggeration to say that nearly half the American population is eagerly anticipating the end of the world. It should be clear that this faith-based nihilism provides its adherents with absolutely no incentive to build a sustainable civilization—economically, environmentally or geopolitically. Some of these people are lunatics, of course, but they are not the lunatic fringe. We are talking about the explicit views of Christian ministers who have congregations numbering in the tens of thousands. These are some of the most influential, politically connected and well-funded people in our society.

It is, of course, taboo to criticize a person's religious beliefs. The problem, however, is that much of what people believe in the name of religion is intrinsically divisive, unreasonable and incompatible with genuine morality. One of the

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: christophobia; clowncarmedia; faithhill; fakebutaccurate; misotheism; moralabsolutes; newsweek; nogods; praytheresnogodsam; reason; samharris; science; secularism; theophobia
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Article goes on to discuss embryonic stem cell research in the same uninformed fashion. This was published in one of America's mainstream newsweeklies on the day before election day. And it was not labled as an editorial.
1 posted on 11/10/2006 5:53:22 AM PST by presidio9
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To: presidio9

bttt


2 posted on 11/10/2006 5:57:26 AM PST by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: presidio9
I take the the "Half of Americans believe the world is 6,000 years old" is extrapolated from the number of practicing Jews and Christians in America?

Sounds like they are making a case for complete disenfranchisement of the same. Nazis published similar rhetoric in Germany about the Jews being incompatible with German society, culture, and progress.

Gas chambers, anyone?
3 posted on 11/10/2006 5:59:54 AM PST by kidao35
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To: presidio9

Certainly open about their agenda, aren't they? In particular cases, like Newsweek or the NYtimes, it's easy enough to keep them away from your life . . . and your children's lives. But where exactly are the alternatives? I would very much like to read a morning newspaper that did not insult me and every belief I hold dear, but there is none to be had here in Atlanta.


4 posted on 11/10/2006 6:01:51 AM PST by madprof98
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To: presidio9
entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago

Wrong! We believe Adam and Eve fell from their divine physical state into their mortal state about 6000 years ago. Based on the Big Bang, the leading Christian scientists believe the physical universe is about 15 billion years old.

5 posted on 11/10/2006 6:02:10 AM PST by HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath (All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; but the horns of the righteous shall be exalted.)
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To: presidio9


I see that Mr. Harris has no moral compunction in killing babies so that he might have a slim chance of living 10 or 20 or 30 years more. As such I'm not sure he's the right person to talk about "faith-based nihilism."









6 posted on 11/10/2006 6:05:26 AM PST by tdewey10 (Can we please take out iran's nuclear capability before they start using it?)
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To: presidio9

This sounds like a start in rationalizations for
beheading Christians, these people already want to eliminate jews.


7 posted on 11/10/2006 6:06:53 AM PST by claptrap (optional tag-line under reconsideration)
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To: presidio9

This is an incredibly stupid article. Thanks for posting it. I do not waste time with Newsweek and would have missed it otherwise. It is a perfect "know thy enemy" piece.


8 posted on 11/10/2006 6:06:59 AM PST by sphinx
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To: HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath
Could be.
Who knows how long the earth was "formless and empty"?

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters
Genesis 1:1-2

9 posted on 11/10/2006 6:07:22 AM PST by apackof2 (They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care)
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To: HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath
Could be.
Who knows how long the earth was "formless and empty"?

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters
Genesis 1:1-2

10 posted on 11/10/2006 6:07:22 AM PST by apackof2 (They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care)
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To: presidio9

Oh yeah, right. All the great scientists of the past were atheists.

Sure.

As an engineer I've come the see the universe as an excellent example of brilliant engineering genius. My hat's off to the Great Engineer.


11 posted on 11/10/2006 6:08:48 AM PST by Seruzawa (If you agree with the French raise your hand - If you are French raise both hands.)
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To: presidio9
It should be clear that this faith-based nihilism provides its adherents with absolutely no incentive to build a sustainable civilization—economically, environmentally or geopolitically.

LOL. People of faith have babies. Secularists have abortions. Pagan Europe is dying.

12 posted on 11/10/2006 6:10:29 AM PST by sphinx
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To: apackof2

Also, who knows how much time passed between verse 1 and verse 2. While I don't subscribe to some versions of the "gap" theory which speculate as to lots of things which supposedly happened durning this period, there is much biblical evidence to support the theory that there was a long gap beteen the two verses.


13 posted on 11/10/2006 6:11:47 AM PST by joebuck
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To: presidio9
This was published in one of America's mainstream newsweeklies on the day before election day. And it was not labled as an editorial.

Yup, here it comes.

Christians, your age of witnessing with your blood is near at hand.

I think this is the work of the gay sub-cabal within the MSM-liberal cabal. This is an outright attack on faith, for rejecting sodomy, for not "reconciling".

14 posted on 11/10/2006 6:13:55 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: presidio9
In this article, so many targets, so little time ...

But I'll start with this one. It should be clear that this faith-based nihilism provides its adherents with absolutely no incentive to build a sustainable civilization—economically, environmentally or geopolitically. Some of these people are lunatics, of course, but they are not the lunatic fringe Let's see.

Who settled THIS country?? Yep, that's right, Christians.

Who has the best economy on the planet? Yep, right again, fog clearing for ya?

Which country, although not a signatore of the Kyoto Treaty, has a clean environment? Yep, that's us!!!

Time to line the birdcage.

15 posted on 11/10/2006 6:15:48 AM PST by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch (good fences make good neighbors!)
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To: sphinx
People of faith have babies. Secularists have abortions.

Good point.

The great engineers of the 19th century and the great scientists of the 16th through 20th centuries were mostly theists, Jews, or Christians of some description. Marie Curie was a Polish Catholic.

The real builders of modern civilization were grounded in Judeo-Christian morality and, yes, revealed teaching, which included values. They were much more productive, too, than the lotus-eaters this journalist represents to us as "moderns", who are now trying to read theists out of society.

The newest social slur: atheists and scientific materialists who refer to one another as "brights" -- in distinction, of course, from religionists and theists.

16 posted on 11/10/2006 6:19:47 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: presidio9; betty boop; cornelis
According to the Genesis account God re-modeled the earth NOT created it a few thousand years ago.. What happened before Adam and Eve?... No one knows.. Darwinists have faith that they know.. but I suspect they don't..

Obviously (to me) Adam was a subcontractor and Eve an interior designer spawning many change orders..

And Jesus was/is a Home Inspector looking at/and for flaws in the construction..

God is the General Contractor and there is a pay day coming..

The Top Off Party(for the laborers) might be quite cool...
Be there.... or be... out of square..

17 posted on 11/10/2006 6:27:01 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperboles)
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To: presidio9
And here's another one... It is, of course, taboo to criticize a person's religious beliefs. The problem, however, is that much of what people believe in the name of religion is intrinsically divisive, unreasonable and incompatible with genuine morality

TABOO??????? WHO are you kidding?? It's taboo to criticize the religious beliefs of everyone other than Christians and Jews. Moslems are off limits, the people who'll cut your head off if you don't convert, as well as Hindus, Buddists, New Agers -- but the people who might turn the the Psalms for a little comfort -- THOSE people are nuts

18 posted on 11/10/2006 6:35:00 AM PST by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch (good fences make good neighbors!)
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To: presidio9

Look for more crap like this from the MSM.

After all, those Republican Conservatives have been put back in their places. The order of things is being restored. Eutopia on Earth is not far away!




19 posted on 11/10/2006 6:35:55 AM PST by rightinthemiddle (Without the Media, the Left and Islamofacists are Nothing.)
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To: presidio9

oops, forgot to add </sarcasm>


20 posted on 11/10/2006 6:37:03 AM PST by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch (good fences make good neighbors!)
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To: presidio9

You just can't make this stuff up. . . Oh, wait, I guess you can.

Rush once said he couldn't understand how some people could look at themselves in the mirror and have the courage to go out in the morning. How can this guy look at what he writes and have the courage to have it printed?


21 posted on 11/10/2006 6:42:45 AM PST by Emrys
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To: joebuck
who knows how much time passed between verse 1 and verse 2.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends:
With the Lord a day is like a thousand years,
and a thousand years are like a day.
2 Peter 3:8

22 posted on 11/10/2006 6:46:29 AM PST by apackof2 (They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care)
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To: presidio9

Interesting times ahead.


23 posted on 11/10/2006 6:47:45 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: presidio9
Ooops, here's another one. genuine morality

Ummm, what is HIS basis for "genuine morality"?

Morality HAS to be based on something unmovable and unchangeable. Apparently his is based on some squishy feel-good cause du joir.

24 posted on 11/10/2006 6:48:11 AM PST by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch (good fences make good neighbors!)
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To: Seruzawa

Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.

Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)

Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!

Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.

Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."

Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gases, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.

Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.

Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.

William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).

Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."


25 posted on 11/10/2006 6:49:13 AM PST by lasereye
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To: lasereye

Steven Hawking - Constantly refers to God in his books.


26 posted on 11/10/2006 7:01:40 AM PST by Paloma_55 (I may be a hateful bigot, but I still love you)
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To: presidio9

This guy, Harris, comes across as a mild mannered, soft spoken fellow -- so no one would regard him as terribly unreasonable, a hatemonger or a fanatic.

His philosophy, however, reeks of Neitchze and Hitler. The MSM LIKES the ideas he has because, hey, if it gets rid of their political opposition, WHY NOT?

Harris doesn't call for violence against adherents to religion, but his ideas lay the groundwork for the yellow stars of David, the tatto ID's, the Conentration Camps, and the Gas Chambers -- or firing squads.


27 posted on 11/10/2006 7:06:58 AM PST by patriot preacher
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To: presidio9
A 3-day-old human embryo is a collection of 150 cells called a blastocyst

Some might call it a 'blastocyst' but that doesn't change the fact that it is a human life, and whether or not it suffers when it is killed is beside the point. I don't know how the universe came to be but I know I don't want to live in a society where innocent life can be destroyed based upon how many cells it contains.

28 posted on 11/10/2006 7:07:55 AM PST by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
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To: presidio9
It is, of course, taboo to criticize a person's religious beliefs. The problem, however, is that much of what people believe in the name of religion is intrinsically divisive, unreasonable and incompatible with genuine morality.

This applies particularly to those whose religion involves worshipping the State and its works - socialists, in a word.

Like the watchful Jehovah, the socialist machinery of death never sleeps.

29 posted on 11/10/2006 7:13:13 AM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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To: presidio9
It is, of course, taboo to criticize a person's religious beliefs. The problem, however, is that much of what people believe in the name of religion is intrinsically divisive, unreasonable and incompatible with genuine morality.

This applies particularly to those whose religion involves worshipping the State and its works - socialists, in a word.

Like the watchful Jehovah, the socialist machinery of death never sleeps.

30 posted on 11/10/2006 7:13:13 AM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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To: presidio9
This article is pure ca ca, plain and simple! Can you imagine them saying this about Islam!?!?

"It is, of course, taboo to criticize a person's religious beliefs."

Oh, they haven't ever criticized Christian's beliefs? Taboo my bootie! The MSM is the most morally bankrupt people I have ever known--no integrity whatsoever!
31 posted on 11/10/2006 7:20:46 AM PST by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense, don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: presidio9
Well, the tone is off-putting, and the guy's...well, how best to state this...how about, "dead wrong".

Granting the Biblical God is as described in that venerable work, I understand thereby that it is His intention that man come to Him by faith, not by preponderance of scientific evidence. It seems obvious to me, then, that it would run counter to that intention for Him to have left any kind of readily discernable trail of evidence that would conclusively support a literal Genesis. Oh, yes, perhaps a crumb here, and maybe another there; polonium decay halos nearly-uniformly permeating the Earth's granitic crust, say, or some such thing for which we have no present explanation; certainly, though, not enough of a trail for anyone to win a Nobel Prize for having proven the Creation account conclusively, for such a proof would obviate the mechanism of faith. One's first inclination might be to cry, "Foul!" or to claim that God plays dirty pool; hiding His tracks in such fashion. But this is entirely in concert with the Bibilcal accounts; that the Almighty has covered His tracks, so to speak, just sufficiently as to be found only by those who genuinely seek Him. In plain terms: if you aren't looking, you'll never find Him; if you are looking, you cannot miss Him.

Some have pointed out that there is no detail of any "construction activity" that may have taken place prior to "the first day"; although, given E=mc2, it strikes me as somewhat of a stretch that there would have existed anything prior to the invocation of light. Still, when One is the Omnipotent Being making all the rules, One does have certain, uh, liberties.

Light and matter
Light and matter
Go together like beer and batter
Let me tell you, brother
Ya can't have one without the other

...but I digress.

In sum, I find it not the least bit surprising -- in fact it seems to me that one ought expect -- that The Divine would have left the Creation in such a state that secular and spiritual minds could each examine it and reach divergent conclusions as to its past; the man of faith finding God in it, and the faithless man finding in it no basis for faith.

As Jesus Himself said upon healing the blind, "According to your faith be it unto you." So, are you yet blind, or do you now see? If you do see, it is by faith; if not, it proves your lack thereof.

32 posted on 11/10/2006 7:25:44 AM PST by HKMk23 (PRO-LIFE: Because a Person's a Person, no matter how small.)
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To: kidao35
>Gas chambers, anyone?

If they ushered me
into the "showers" and turned on
new wave Zyklon-B,

my main thought would be
at least I will never see
Olbermann again!

33 posted on 11/10/2006 7:26:10 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: patriot preacher
This guy, Harris, comes across as a mild mannered, soft spoken fellow -- so no one would regard him as terribly unreasonable, a hatemonger or a fanatic.

I know a guy like that who passed himself off as a Christian for many years and fooled a lot of people with his "poor me" act. It was discovered that he had stolen millions of dollars from his family, bilked friends out of thousands of dollars and stiffed everyone he hired, including his lawyers. He would have you believe he's broke, but his net worth is somewhere around 12 million. If you live in Delaware, beware of this man, he is evil incarnate but you'd never guess by his sheeplike manner, and once he gets you to feel sorry for him, he's hooked you.

These sociopaths appear so reasonable and not the lying slime that they are. The Devil lives to deceive.

34 posted on 11/10/2006 7:27:21 AM PST by pray4liberty (School District horrors: http://totallyunjust.tripod.com)
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To: presidio9
Given the most common interpretation of Biblical prophecy, it is not an exaggeration to say that nearly half the American population is eagerly anticipating the end of the world.

I want Jesus to return. I want His rule here upon a world that is in desperation need of Him. If that means the end of this present age...so be it! I could withstand that for just a moment in His presence.

35 posted on 11/10/2006 7:31:12 AM PST by James Ewell Brown Stuart (Go back and do your duty even as I have done mine. I would rather die than be whipped.)
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To: presidio9
The problem, however, is that much of what people believe in the name of religion is intrinsically divisive, unreasonable and incompatible with genuine morality.

Which leads to the next question... let's say he is right and that God is non-existence or extraenous and unecessary.

What does that leave us with ?

Without an Absolute moral authority, there is no absolute moral law and without it, there is nothing to differentiate between acts that are right/wrong, good/evil.

So, what we essentially have is the author's opinion of what is moral and say, Hitler's opinion of what is moral.

Who is right then ? Had Hitler won the war, would he have been right ? After all it boils down to Hitler's morality vs. the author's.

He needs to be reminded that Hitler won the elections by a landslide. Was he right because the vast majority of Germans sided with him ?

In the end it boils down to this -- What Sam Harris says is genuine morality is genuine morality IN SO FAR AS HE SAYS IT IS.

Which is to say, I, me, Sam Harris, by virtue of the authority vested in me by myself, declare that anything that meets my approval is moral and anything that does not is immoral.
36 posted on 11/10/2006 7:39:58 AM PST by SirLinksalot
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To: presidio9
Some of these people are lunatics, of course

Some?

37 posted on 11/10/2006 7:44:42 AM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: apackof2

>But do not forget this one thing, dear friends:
With the Lord a day is like a thousand years,
and a thousand years are like a day.
2 Peter 3:8<

Yes but everywhere a number like one day or three days is used it is a literal 24 hour day.Trying to twist scripture to justify evolution is no different than excepting evolution at face value.


38 posted on 11/10/2006 7:48:08 AM PST by Blessed
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To: Coleus; wideawake; NYer; Mr. Silverback; cpforlife.org; Aquinasfan; cgk; wagglebee; weegee; ...

ping


39 posted on 11/10/2006 7:58:02 AM PST by presidio9 (Make Mohammed's day: Shoot a nun in the back.)
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To: presidio9; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; Antoninus; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

It disgusts me how smug the left is.

40 posted on 11/10/2006 8:02:33 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: SirLinksalot
Hitler won the elections by a landslide

He never got a majority. But your overall point is right on.

41 posted on 11/10/2006 8:03:40 AM PST by lasereye
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To: presidio9

"Here, as ever, religious dogmatism impedes genuine wisdom and compassion."

I still maintain that cord blood would provide adequately for the research without compromising anyone's beliefs, religious or atheist.

This guy practically calls religion evil. Like reading Marx's manifesto, "religion is the opiate of the masses."

Notice he NEVER said it didn't work! ;o)


42 posted on 11/10/2006 8:06:21 AM PST by Froufrou
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To: presidio9; DaveLoneRanger
It needs subtitle of article in the headline:

An atheist's lament.

Typical weak atheist arguments where they try to point to negative consequences of belief, and argue that their authoritarian elite should direct future evolution, ultimately denying freedom of individuals created in the image of God.

This intellectually challenged oxymoronic statement: "faith-based nihilism" is self contradictory and a subtle but direct attack on the existential argument for the existence of God from the need for ultimate meaning for life.

Interesting statement/admission from an atheist:

Despite a full century of scientific insights attesting to the antiquity of life and the greater antiquity of the Earth, more than half the American population believes that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago.

Just needs corrected: Despite a full century from brainwashing of the dogmatic religion of historical reconstruction by chance and natural process and the purposeful exclusion of God, more than half the American population believes that the entire cosmos was created fairly recently as the truth of God's creation speaks for itself.
43 posted on 11/10/2006 8:06:53 AM PST by FreedomProtector
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To: presidio9

This is the kind of article I see in magazines in doctors offices where I say, "hey, this may be interesting", and read about one ridiculously opinionated and missinformed paragraph and move on to something more interesting.

When I was in high school, I learned one of our jobs on the school newspaper staff was to print things, even if we disagreed with them, to get a "rise" out of people to make them think and want to read the paper. I try not to be so easily manipulated.


44 posted on 11/10/2006 8:10:42 AM PST by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world now than Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: presidio9

btt


45 posted on 11/10/2006 8:17:50 AM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: presidio9
Ping to read later.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - you always post the good stuff!

46 posted on 11/10/2006 8:23:48 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

Dave sure doesn't think so.


47 posted on 11/10/2006 8:25:29 AM PST by presidio9 (Make Mohammed's day: Shoot a nun in the back.)
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To: presidio9

"Those with the power to elect presidents and congressmen—and many who themselves get elected—believe that dinosaurs lived two by two upon Noah's Ark, that light from distant galaxies was created en route to the Earth and that the first members of our species were fashioned out of dirt and divine breath, in a garden with a talking snake, by the hand of an invisible God."



For two hundred years those people have done a pretty good job.

I think a voter that doesn't even speak our language might know even less about voting in America than a minister in Texas.


48 posted on 11/10/2006 8:35:43 AM PST by ansel12 (America, love it ,or at least give up your home citizenship before accepting ours too.)
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To: kidao35
Half of Americans believe the world is 6,000 years old

There have been polls on this. The number is probably less than half, but higher than any other country on earth. Those who live in foreign countries and have noticed this are somewhat bewildered.

49 posted on 11/10/2006 8:38:42 AM PST by RightWhale (RTRA DLQS GSCW)
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To: Emrys
You just can't make this stuff up. . . Oh, wait, I guess you can.

***********

LOL!

Unfortunately, one may simply look around to find plenty of others who agree with this poor man.

50 posted on 11/10/2006 9:44:58 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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