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From Russia, minus love
The Age ^ | November 25, 2006 | Vanora Bennett

Posted on 11/24/2006 5:34:19 PM PST by A. Pole

IMAGINE you were a foreign power that wanted to get rid of a dissident who had set up home in London. Would you (a) push the troublemaker under a bus, (b) have him mown down by a hit-run driver, or (c) arrange for him to be poisoned while eating in a crowded restaurant?

If you wanted to make the death look natural, or just to keep things simple, you would presumably avoid the restaurant scenario. And yet, if many Russia-watchers are to be believed, the country's Federal Security Service (FSB) has carried out just such an assassination.

On November 1, Alexander Litvinenko, a 43-year-old Russian who used to work for the FSB — the post-Soviet version of the KGB — had breakfast with two Russian men, one a former KGB officer, at the Millennium hotel in Mayfair, then lunch at Itsu, a cheap and cheerful Japanese eatery in London, with an Italian defence consultant, Mario Scaramella. Litvinenko later claimed that Scaramella had shown him

a hit list featuring Litvinenko's name as well as that of murdered journalist Anna Politkovskaya.

By that evening, he was so ill he was taken to hospital. Doctors wasted 10 days trying to treat him for food poisoning. His condition deteriorated — hair falling out, difficulty speaking, white blood cells disappearing, unable to eat, even nourishment from a drip causing him to vomit.

It wasn't until earlier this week, after listening to their patient's pleas, that doctors said they were investigating the possibility of poisoning. Initially they suspected thallium, a tasteless, odourless killer used in rat poison until it was banned in the 1970s. By Thursday, however, with Litvinenko's condition deteriorating rapidly, a hospital spokesman said the medical team had ruled out thallium but was still unclear about the cause of his condition. A friend said the former spy had suffered a cardiac arrest and was on an artificial heart support machine. Litvinenko died yesterday, at 8.21am Melbourne time.

Litvinenko's friends in London have been quick to accuse the Kremlin of being behind this poisoning. They say Russia wanted to stop Litvinenko investigating the assassination last month of another high-profile critic of the Russian Government — his friend, the campaigning journalist Politkovskaya. They believe the Kremlin was also to blame for Politkovskaya being shot outside her Moscow apartment door.

[...]


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Russia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: evilempire; litvinenko; london; poison; putin; russia; scaramella
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To: GodGunsGuts

It is still possible that I win Powerball jackpot, although I do not even play lottery. Do not complicate. I see the case is open and shut, with the only thing left to do is naming, tracing, and liquidating the kegebuns involved.


61 posted on 11/25/2006 11:35:18 AM PST by GSlob
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To: GSlob

As someone else mentioned, there could be a variety of reasons why the P 210 was smuggled to England. All we know is it got as far as London. There are a variety of reasons why it could have been smuggled there. For instance, it could have been in transit, a test or to provide bona fides, etc. The most obvious conclusion, the one that is being broadcasted to anyone who will listen by Gordievsky, may just be a cover. I'm not ruling out your interpretation, but let's remember the KGB have carried out many similar operations in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. On that, there is no doubt in my mind.


62 posted on 11/25/2006 11:44:46 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

"When you are dealing with the wilderness of mirrors,"

What wilderness of mirrors?

What part of "Russians are the worst genocidal murders of all time" do you not understand?

http://genocidecurriculum.org/


63 posted on 11/25/2006 11:53:30 AM PST by spanalot
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To: spanalot

I understand that very well. It's one of the reasons, combined with the KGB's history and their building of Iran's nuclear program, that makes me believe there is more to this picture than meets the eye. If my suspicions are correct, this case involves Russia in something far worse than the murder of a Putin critic.


64 posted on 11/25/2006 11:56:28 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: A. Pole
"Shove your bear
Up your rear
And keep it thear"
It's hard to teach the kids the proper spelling of "there" when they like rhymes.
65 posted on 11/25/2006 11:58:22 AM PST by GSlob
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To: GSlob

==naming, tracing, and liquidating the kegebuns involved.

On that, we both agree. I would only add conclusively figuring out why the P 210 was there in the first place, and, potentially, where it was going.


66 posted on 11/25/2006 12:08:04 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

it was going in Litvinenko's food.


67 posted on 11/25/2006 12:09:36 PM PST by GSlob
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To: GSlob; spanalot
Either the Russians thought of an extremely novel use for Polonium 210 (to murder), were conducting a test (such as the ease they can smuggle it past Western detection), proving someone's bona feds, or they were smuggling it to rogue elements (inside or outside England) and/or rogue regimes. I think these are all viable possibilities at this point, especially after reading the following:

The agency's chief executive, Pat Troop, said the high level of polonium-210 indicated Litvinenko "would either have to have eaten it, inhaled it or taken it in through a wound."

...

Chris Lloyd, a British radiation protection adviser, said it would be relatively easy to smuggle polonium into a country, because its alpha radiation would not set off radiation detectors.

...

Professor Dudley Goodhead, a radiation expert at the Medical Research Council, said that "to poison someone, much larger amounts are required and this would have to be manmade, perhaps from a particle accelerator or a nuclear reactor."

...

The Health Protection Agency said the use of polonium as a deliberate poisoning would be "an unprecedented event." Several experts also said they were unaware of any other known poisonings from the element.

"I've been in radiation sciences for 30-odd years and I'm not aware of any such incident," said Roger Cox, director of the agency's center for radiation, chemicals and environmental hazards.

http://wtop.com/?nid=383&sid=985629&sidelines=1
68 posted on 11/25/2006 1:01:52 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GSlob; spanalot

Also...

What is the risk to other people from the dose Mr Litvinenko received?

It cannot pass through the skin, and must be ingested or inhaled (or delivered through a wound as per above--GGG) into the body to cause damage.

And because the radiation has a very short range, it only harms nearby tissue, so those who came into contact with him are at very little risk.

William Gelletly, professor of physics at the University of Surrey, said: "Polonium-210 is very unlikely to have contaminated any staff who treated Mr Litvinenko or anyone who came in contact with him since they would have had to ingest or breathe in the contaminated fluids from his body."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6181688.stm


69 posted on 11/25/2006 1:11:05 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

"If my suspicions are correct, this case involves Russia in something far worse than the murder of a Putin critic."

Nobody's biting - if it walks and talks like a duck - guess what?

This is another in a LONG line of enemies of the Kremlin that have been liquidated - well over 100 million by now.


70 posted on 11/25/2006 1:13:12 PM PST by spanalot
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To: spanalot

That's too bad. Well, I pretty much have it narrowed down to either Litvinenko was setup by Gordievsky (probably a phony defector) and co., or he died accidentally in a smuggling operation. Time will tell (hopefully).


71 posted on 11/25/2006 1:19:34 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

"Well, I pretty much have it narrowed down to either Litvinenko was setup by Gordievsky (probably a phony defector) and co., or he died accidentally in a smuggling operation."

Pray tell by what leap of faith are you ignoring Putin's duplicity in liquidating his enemies.


72 posted on 11/25/2006 1:27:02 PM PST by spanalot
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To: spanalot
I'm not ignoring Putin's duplicity in liquidating his enemies. Either Litvinenko was genuine and thus set up by phony defector Gordievsky and co., or Litvinenko is himself a phony defector who was working with Gordievsky when he died in a smuggling operation gone bad (there have been plenty of documented cases where the very people smuggling radioactive materials die of radiation poisoning). As I said in my last reply to you, to my mind, both are still open possibilities. So I will be looking for evidence in both directions. BTW, the Soviets/Russians have a long history of sending phony defectors. Why should this time be any different (whether it be Gordievsky, or both of them)?
73 posted on 11/25/2006 2:42:16 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

"Litvinenko is himself a phony defector "

Next you'll announce Christmas is canceled as he was also Santa Claus.


74 posted on 11/25/2006 3:34:28 PM PST by spanalot
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To: Sawdring
Who poisoned Yushchenko? (just two years ago)

Certainly Moscow did not do it. If they did they would use something else than dioxin. As well you can try to poison someone with DDT. It is loony and dumb to believe such conspiracy theory.

75 posted on 11/25/2006 6:51:12 PM PST by A. Pole (Slavery is a natural and logical consequence of the free market.)
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To: A. Pole
Arrogant bastards want people to know they murder whoever they feel like murdering, and Putin is and always has been the lowest sort of snake.
76 posted on 11/25/2006 6:52:48 PM PST by JasonC
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To: GSlob
Of course, he could have been just murdered by Putin's Russia.

More likely he was murdered by someone who wanted to embarrass Putin during the Helsinki meeting with EU.

There is one assassination for which one could suspect Russia. It was death of Yandarbiev in Qatar Such killing makes sense.

Litvinenko was a little fish. There are much more attractive targets in UK but it is very dubious that Russians would risk alienating the British.

77 posted on 11/25/2006 6:59:34 PM PST by A. Pole (Slavery is a natural and logical consequence of the free market.)
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To: JasonC
Arrogant bastards want people to know they murder whoever they feel like murdering, and Putin is and always has been the lowest sort of snake.

You logic is circular. You think that Putin ordered idiotic crimes because he is a nasty (and stupid) "snake", and this that he ordered it proves that his is indeed such a character.A because B and B because of A.

If he wanted to play such game he would start with Zakayev. It would be more useful and would gain more respect.

78 posted on 11/25/2006 7:11:51 PM PST by A. Pole (Slavery is a natural and logical consequence of the free market.)
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To: A. Pole
No, I know he is a snake because he does things like sell nukes to the worst criminals on the planet then covers their backsides diplomatically. That he also arrests exiles and murders his domestic opponents is just character acting filler. Destroying civilization as far as in him lies, heads the bill of indictment. He is a snake, he always has been a snake, he's on a rocket sled to a warm place and grabbing all the souls he can for the fryer. Yours included.
79 posted on 11/25/2006 7:20:22 PM PST by JasonC
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To: spanalot

No. But I do maintain that Litvinenko at a minimum got himself mixed up the a phony defector, Gordievsky. Gordievsky is either connected to the murder, or in on the smuggling operation IMO. And since he is still among the living, part of the investigation into Litvinenko's premature demise should focus on him.


80 posted on 11/25/2006 7:39:31 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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