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Church Is Denied Waiver of Noise Restriction
Washington Post ^ | Friday, December 1, 2006 | Bill Turque

Posted on 12/01/2006 7:43:44 AM PST by sten

Fairfax County officials have issued a ringing non-endorsement of the bells at St. John Neumann's in Reston, ruling that they must toll within the limits of the county's noise ordinance or not at all.

The Board of Supervisors asked the zoning staff this year to see whether the law could be amended to accommodate the church, whose bells ring at a volume slightly higher than the 55-decibel maximum permitted in residential areas.

<snip> follow story [here]

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: District of Columbia; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: antichristianity; belltolls4thee; christmas; secularprogressives; sp
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To: sten
If there is a separation of church and state (dare you to find that wording in the Constitution), how do they think their rules apply?

Are the ringing of church bells integral to the religious practices of this church's members? I would guess not.

And even if they are, noise regulations are applicable to everyone, even churches. Arguing your religious rights are being violated while you violate a law applicable to everyone regardless of religion is almost always a non-starter. So says the U.S. Supreme Court.

21 posted on 12/01/2006 8:15:33 AM PST by gdani (Save the cheerleader, save the world)
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To: sten

This one is pretty straightforward.

The local noise ordinance establishes a 55 db limit.

If the ordinance, or the associated regulations, contains a clause that specifies the distance, then it's a law of general application that applies to everybody, irrespective of whether they are churches, businesses, individuals, wolves howling at the zoo or what have you.

If the ordinance or the regs do not contain a distance feature, the law is too vague and can be challenged in court and beaten. Of course, then all the town has to do is to fix the ordinance by inserting a distance measure to go with the decibel limit.

There's no religious issue here, or any constitutional rights issue here at all, really, except maybe one. It's a pure state's rights issue. States and their municpal subdivisions have the general police power, and can pass noise restrictions.

I suppose the one POSSIBLE argument from a Constitutional level is that any sort of noise restriction is a restriction on free speech/free expression of religion.
But that's nutty, because it knows no natural limit.
Can Indians use hallucinogenic mudrugs because they say their religious ritual requires it? No. The general drug laws override those specific religious needs. Likewise with noise. Of course, trying to take away Catholics' communion wine during Prohibition would have brought Prohibition to a screeching halt a lot earlier, so there is a realism factor here as to what general laws of government can presume to alter ancient practices of great big religions.

Catholic Church bell carillions don't fall within that "ancient practice" practical exception. Particularly not electric bells in suburban residential neighborhoods.


22 posted on 12/01/2006 8:16:22 AM PST by Vicomte13 (Aure entuluva.)
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To: sten

I've never supported these stupid noise ordinances. If you want it completely silent, live in the country. Otherwise, stop complaining. The fact that we as a society are citing churches for being too loud is ludicrous.


23 posted on 12/01/2006 8:16:38 AM PST by mysterio
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To: sten
Forget about church and state. Why didn't the church approach the zoning folks prior to installing the bells? It would have been a rather simple decision versus having to pay for bells that cannot be chimed! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out but then again!
24 posted on 12/01/2006 8:17:33 AM PST by tuvals (America First - Support Our Troops!)
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To: mysterio

So if a mosque is built near a neighborhood, you wouldn't expect people to mind hearing an amplified call to prayer several times a day?


25 posted on 12/01/2006 8:18:48 AM PST by linda_22003
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To: DonaldC

5 decibels is louder by a factor of 3, which is easily distinguised by ear. This isn't Christian bashing by any reasonable definition.


26 posted on 12/01/2006 8:20:03 AM PST by Gunut
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To: sten

Odd.

Muslims can broadcast THEIR calls over a regional loudspeaker.


27 posted on 12/01/2006 8:20:57 AM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Always Right

I just don't see Quasimodo fiddling with a little volume knob. Doesn't have the same impact as riding those big mothers. (Moving his hump from the left side to the right, maybe, but just for a goof.)


28 posted on 12/01/2006 8:20:59 AM PST by Silly (Still being... Silly)
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To: Blueflag

Read the whole article and your question will be answered.


29 posted on 12/01/2006 8:22:12 AM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: sten

Why not just broadcast the chime over the radio, a low power signal? Those who want to hear it, can tune in. Those who don't, won't!

It might be especially useful in silencing the demonic cries coming out from mosques, in the least.


30 posted on 12/01/2006 8:22:28 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: Vicomte13

I would have no problem with them enforcing such a statue (getting passed the government laws governing a church in the face of the 'separation of church and state')... just as soon as they enforce those same laws on motorcycles, sporting events, and airplanes.


31 posted on 12/01/2006 8:23:59 AM PST by sten
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To: sten

I bet when a mosque moves in it's wailing 110 db 5 times a day evey day.


32 posted on 12/01/2006 8:24:01 AM PST by null and void (To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone. --Reba McEntire)
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To: tuvals

i would guess the church pre-dated the noise ordinance. not to mention, has the noise level decreased in the past?


33 posted on 12/01/2006 8:26:02 AM PST by sten
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To: Gunut

Well, when I have taken measurements inside my church (I work the sound system there) I had to have a meter. Maybe my hearing is already shot...hehehe


34 posted on 12/01/2006 8:26:14 AM PST by DonaldC
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To: Vicomte13
The local noise ordinance establishes a 55 db limit.

Which preceded the other, the ordinance or the church bells?

Cordially,

35 posted on 12/01/2006 8:26:53 AM PST by Diamond
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To: mysterio
I'd be complaining about anyone being too loud close to my house on a regular basis, let alone at 7:30 on a Sunday morning!
36 posted on 12/01/2006 8:26:58 AM PST by Gunut
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To: sten

I can take or leave electronic church bells, but 3 times a day and then for every Sunday mass starting at 7:30 am sounds like a lot. And at a loud volume? Doesn't sound like a good neighbor to me.

Our local Catholic church (the only one with bells) chimes its "bells" at noon and 5. No different on Sunday. Plays seasonal songs.

Funny note: The Catholic college I went to (and work at now) got a bell thingy, (electronic) when I was a student. It "rang" at noon with the bell song whose name eludes me now, followed by 12 'gongs'. Well I had a micro-economics class in the building with this thing, actually located right below it. Class met from 11:30 - 12:20, so three days a week professor had to stop and we all hummed the bell song and gonged along with it. It was impossible to hear yourself think, let alone hear him lecture while it was "chiming". It didn't last past the first semester.


37 posted on 12/01/2006 8:28:36 AM PST by YankeeGirl
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To: Diamond
Which preceded the other, the ordinance or the church bells? Well, the bells are only 2 years old, so in all likelyhood they're newer than the ordinance itself.
38 posted on 12/01/2006 8:29:36 AM PST by Gunut
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To: cryptical
Bell ringing has been part of the Christian faith for hundreds of years and is an integral part of it. The government deciding to pass a law to 'prohibit the FREE EXERCISE of that tradition does not make the law right and the church wrong. We are not talking about a law that protects someone from bodily harm or death here. And most 'laws' that do are based on the Ten Commandments and the Church's teachings. Since the decibel level is only a few points higher that the 55db that is stated, I would defy anyone to tell me they can hear the difference.
39 posted on 12/01/2006 8:29:38 AM PST by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: linda_22003

If it is close to 55 db at the measuring point, often all that is required is a simple repositioning of the speaker.


40 posted on 12/01/2006 8:31:58 AM PST by taxcontrol
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