Skip to comments.
Earth's Climate Changes in Tune with Eccentric Orbital Rhythms
Scientific American.com ^
| December 22, 2006
| By David Biello
Posted on 12/22/2006 11:53:58 AM PST by aculeus
click here to read article
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40, 41-60, 61-80, 81-100 next last
To: Nathan Zachary
The pacific floor is dished in, and the mid atlantic ridge pushes the sea floor up; it slopes from the coastlines down to a point that's deepest between the mid atlantic ridge and the coastlines. Wanna bet that sediment drifts slowly towards the deepest parts of these formations? Using core samples of this stuff as measurements of the earths age is just plain silly.
There is no way to predict how much is slides towards these centers a year or how many events have effected it, the rate at which this sediment is produced, that it was always constant, etc etc. What about so called continental drift?
Surely that moved it around a lot in 42 million years. Not to mention that we'd all be dead or very stoned from breathing all that methane gas released from the Methane Hydrate ice formations. There is no way that this stuff can be used to determine what the weather was at any point in history because of these underterminable variables.
Heiko Pälike had better head back to the guessing board if he wants to get more grant money. Surely he could have come up with something more believable than this. It can't be that hard.
Sea floor sediments are actually a pretty way to check.
yes, and no - part of what your saying is right, but the conclusion isn't valid.
Sediment (from erosion and whale poop, and dead plankton, and dead fish poop and plants) drops at a pretty steady rate. The characteristics of that dropped sediment change as the climate changes, which helps.
Yes, the thickness of the seafloor sediment layer is greater at the edges (away from the mid-Atlantic rift for example - where it is zero) compared to the thickness where the seafloor drops into a trench. The rift itself is much higher than the general ocean floor though because of the rising magma pushes up the floor locally.
But, at the trench, the sudden drop-off is so great as the ocean floor goes under a continental plate that the actual ocean depth increases significantly. Much more on the west Pacific than west Atlantic however.
But the sea floor sediment itself is very steady: it doesn't slide or displace sideways as the whole crust moves. A glacier, on the other hand is very unstable and does significantly move its accumulated debris around as it goes down the mountain. The glacier though is moving at ten thousand times the rate.
21
posted on
12/22/2006 2:28:50 PM PST
by
Robert A Cook PE
(I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
To: Nathan Zachary; patton
"Seriously, I wonder why that stuff isn't being explored as at the very least a very cheap natual gas supply?"
It is. At some point on the cost curve of petroleum (equaling about $5 per gal for gasoline) methane hydrate and methane hydride start to look viable as an alternative fuel. There is a huge quantity available, but the research is not being pursued like E85, fuel cells, etc.
To: Prophet in the wilderness
That's what I was wondering. "scientists" certainly don't know either. Maybe we should ask Al Gore, He seems to know everything.
You'd think if it just sat there, we'd smell it by now. Pity the first person who gets a wiff of a millions of years old dinosaur fart. "Hog barn days" won't be very pleasant either.
The weather man will have more to do than just guessing at the weather in the future, he'll be guessing at methane gas cloud movements and telling us what the day will smell like.
To: aculeus
Al Gore's problem is that his reasoning is circular while his direction is eccentric.
Further complicating things, Gore's rhythm is Koom Bah Yah.
24
posted on
12/22/2006 3:25:11 PM PST
by
HardStarboard
(Give Pelosi and Reid Enough Rope to Hang Themselves.)
To: Nathan Zachary
Is methane a viable energy source ? Either it goes out into space, or it decomposes, can gases decompose ?
To: aculeus; Old_Professor; RightWhale
T'weren't the SUVs then, but the Orbital Cycles.
I wonder what kind of mileage you get with them Orbital Cycles. I'd like to visit Mars and stuff.
26
posted on
12/22/2006 3:53:57 PM PST
by
NicknamedBob
("Well," said the Asimov Robot, "A catenary is a sag, and a parabola is a droop.")
To: NicknamedBob
They were rolling along making good progress with orbital eccentricity and then they got carbon in their valves and sputtered to a halt.
27
posted on
12/22/2006 3:58:11 PM PST
by
RightWhale
(RTRA DLQS GSCW)
To: RightWhale
They should have converted that carbon into methane and released it into the atmosphere.
It always makes me feel better.
28
posted on
12/22/2006 4:03:58 PM PST
by
NicknamedBob
("Well," said the Asimov Robot, "A catenary is a sag, and a parabola is a droop.")
To: RightWhale
Besides, you may think they're "eccentrics," but I say they're a bunch of cranks.
29
posted on
12/22/2006 4:05:45 PM PST
by
NicknamedBob
("Well," said the Asimov Robot, "A catenary is a sag, and a parabola is a droop.")
To: BenLurkin
Algore has no science. He has only faith.
30
posted on
12/22/2006 4:11:03 PM PST
by
bert
(K.E. N.P. Rozerem commercials give me nightmares)
To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Actually, it isn't very steady. If I could find a better seasat photo you can see just how uneven the floor of the oceans and seas are. You can see just how many catastrophic events have occured and no doubt stirred up this stuff at various times, certainly enough to make it impossible to determine what was were and when.
There are many unaswered questions which make it impossible to determine the age of anything that may be on the floor of the Pacific and Atlantic. For example, the grand Canyon is assumed to have been formed by millions of years of errosion. If that's what formed it, wouldnt you expect to find a gigantic river delta where the Colorado River enters the Gulf of California? Its not there. Where did 800 cubic miles of dirt go?
If it's buried under all the magna that sits on top of the actual Pacific floor, which is only assumed to be basalt like the Atlantic ocean floor, (nobody has been able to drill a hole deep enough to find out) it stands to reason anything on the pacific floor would only be as old as the dirt that has piled up from the grand canyon since that event.
Using plate tetonic theory, itself a theory that is in no way free of it's own problems creates even more questions than it answers. Plate tectonics claims a trench forms as a plate dives down into the mantle, a process called subduction. The fact that there is NO distortion as you point out of the horizontal sediment layer in these trenches shows that this can't be what's happening.
If a 30 mile thick plate was sliding into the mantle even only a couple of miles, the friction would be far greater than the rocks strength. We would see much buckling, distortion, breaking and crushing. Yet, there is no horizontal distortion.
Plate tetonic theory suggests earthquakes form where these plates slide under each other , so there would definately be a lot of activty in this area disturbing the sediment greatly. Or, tetonic theory is wrong.
Shallow earthquakes displace the ground horizontally along a fault, and would also cause heat. Since these sediments aren't disturbed or destroyed by heat, these trenches can't be caused a fault line either.
To establish a plausible theory about climate history based on sediments which are impossible to be certain of their age and reliability is a waste of time. certainly not "science" governments enviroment activists should be using to claim the sky is falling, and creating any global warming policy on.
To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Here's where you can get a look at some facinating pics.
SeaSat mission
To: Nathan Zachary
"To establish a plausible theory about climate history based on sediments which are impossible to be certain of their age and reliability is a waste of time."
Snowfall occurs in irregular drifts and windrows also, but we can reliably measure the amount we get.
The ocean plain is broad and predominantly featureless. The drifting sediment is little disturbed by currents.
Like tree rings, a certain layering tends to take place, and the proof of it as a reliable gauge is in having similar evaluations from widely scattered locations of ocean floor.
33
posted on
12/22/2006 5:25:54 PM PST
by
NicknamedBob
("Well," said the Asimov Robot, "A catenary is a sag, and a parabola is a droop.")
To: aculeus
"...useless...."? wtf, gratuitous interjection?
34
posted on
12/22/2006 5:53:29 PM PST
by
Paladin2
(Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
To: Paladin2
Well, useless to the small animals, which have died. Isn't this the same stuff we use in swimming pool filters, diatomaceous earth?
35
posted on
12/22/2006 6:16:07 PM PST
by
NicknamedBob
("Well," said the Asimov Robot, "A catenary is a sag, and a parabola is a droop.")
To: NicknamedBob
I'm guessing that it's the limestone of the future.
36
posted on
12/22/2006 6:19:34 PM PST
by
Paladin2
(Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
To: Paladin2
Good guess.
limestone (lìm´ston´), sedimentary rock composed of calcium carbonate. It is ordinarily white but may be colored brown, yellow, or red by iron oxide and blue, black, or gray by carbon impurities. Most limestones are formed from the skeletons of marine invertebrates; a few are chemically precipitated from solution.
37
posted on
12/22/2006 7:04:53 PM PST
by
NicknamedBob
("Well," said the Asimov Robot, "A catenary is a sag, and a parabola is a droop.")
To: Paladin2
38
posted on
12/22/2006 7:05:47 PM PST
by
aculeus
To: aculeus
No, just an adjective observation from the article.
39
posted on
12/22/2006 7:35:52 PM PST
by
Paladin2
(Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
To: aculeus; Paladin2
"Are you talkin' to me?" Uh-oh! I'll get out here ...
(Actually, he was responding to David Biello, but I'm going to be busy making popcorn.)
40
posted on
12/22/2006 7:41:06 PM PST
by
NicknamedBob
(When I say, "Merry Christmas!" it's only a suggestion. -- You don't HAVE to ...)
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40, 41-60, 61-80, 81-100 next last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson