Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Serious, Unpublicized, Side Effects of an EMP Attack
Strategy Page ^ | 12/27/06

Posted on 12/27/2006 7:40:27 AM PST by pabianice

December 27, 2006: Iran continues to predict the imminent destruction of Israel, and promises to do what it can to help make that happen. Israel responds with dark threats of countermeasures that will prevent Iranian plans from working. Most people think that the most likely Israeli response is air strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities. But Israel has another weapon available, but one with serious side effects. Israel has a satellite launch capability that could put a nuclear weapon in low orbit (about 200 kilometers up). Once over Iran, the nuclear bomb could be detonated, and create an EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse), which would destroy most of the military and civilian electronics in Iran. That would be a major setback to the Iranian nuclear weapons program, and the Iranian economy. There would be ugly side effects. The nuclear blast would also create a temporary belt of intense radiation, which would destroy or damage many of the low earth orbit satellites up there. There would be $100 billion, or more, in damage to these satellites, and several years of disrupted communications, GPS and weather prediction service until all the damaged satellites could be replaced. It's this collateral damage, more than anything else, that protects Iran from this kind of attack.

Then again, what's to prevent Iran or North Korea from setting off a nuke in low orbit, just to mess up everyone's satellites? Sounds like a great extortion opportunity. This is one reason more and more satellites are being hardened to resist the kind of radiation surge high altitude EMP would produce. But most of the stuff in low orbit is not hardened, and even the birds that are so protected, are not invulnerable to EMP, just less vulnerable.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: emp; empattack; muslims; terrorists
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-92 next last
This is just one of the dangers in dropping all other nav aids in favor of GPS, a system than can be shut-down by an enemy, leaving the U.S. with little upon which to fall back.
1 posted on 12/27/2006 7:40:29 AM PST by pabianice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: pabianice

--b--


2 posted on 12/27/2006 7:42:44 AM PST by rellimpank (-don't believe anything the MSM states about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

Interesting. Thanks for posting.


3 posted on 12/27/2006 7:42:57 AM PST by PGalt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
That would be a major setback to the Iranian nuclear weapons program, and the Iranian economy.

Get 'er done!

4 posted on 12/27/2006 7:43:41 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with EPI, you're not a conservative!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

> This is just one of the dangers in dropping all other nav aids in favor of GPS, a system than can be shut-down by an enemy, leaving the U.S. with little upon which to fall back. <

Does anybody in our Navy or Air Force remember how to do celestial navigation? If not, we're probably doomed as a military power.


5 posted on 12/27/2006 7:46:51 AM PST by Hawthorn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

There are also non nuclear means of generating EMP, though the effects are not as wide spread as with a sub orbital nuke.


6 posted on 12/27/2006 7:48:06 AM PST by The Great RJ ("Mir we bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice; Jeff Head; Travis McGee; cva66snipe

Bump!


7 posted on 12/27/2006 7:48:39 AM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

GPS isn't in low earth orbit, they are 12,000 miles up. There are 24 of them so it would be hard to knock out more than one or two at a time, and since they only last 10 years there are almost always 3 or 4 ready to be launched each year, so replacing one or two that get taken out by an enemy could happen in a matter of weeks.


8 posted on 12/27/2006 7:49:11 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

My former Congressman, Curt Weldon, has been warning about the threat of EMP for many years. It's a #$%@ shame that he will not be in COngress next term to keep up the fight. To my fellow Pennsylvanians who were stupid enough to vote the Dem ticket, good effing luck getting the same support from a Clinton/Berger tool like Sestak.


9 posted on 12/27/2006 7:49:17 AM PST by SueRae
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

small neutron burns over the parliament while in session and their military bases would be better......along with a few bunker-busters for the underground stuff, of course


10 posted on 12/27/2006 7:56:15 AM PST by Vn_survivor_67-68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

Does anyone know how, in basic terms, one would "harden" a satellite in orbit against an EMP? I suppose there's no place up there to ground it.


11 posted on 12/27/2006 7:57:14 AM PST by PUGACHEV
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hawthorn

Actually, yes. Several ships I was on (former USN) the navigator always had a sextant handy in case the on-board navigation equipment failed. During daylight hours, shooting a "sun line" gave a pretty good indication of where we were - and at night there are several stars to pick for the same purpose. Always have a backup!


12 posted on 12/27/2006 7:59:16 AM PST by Ken522
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: PUGACHEV

Grounding of a satellite is rather simple. You attach the grounding strap to the sky hook (thingy that keeps the satellite from falling). Don't hesitate to ask more questions.


13 posted on 12/27/2006 8:00:21 AM PST by DugwayDuke (Conservative have so many principles that they won't even vote for themselves.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Hawthorn
Does anybody in our Navy or Air Force remember how to do celestial navigation? If not, we're probably doomed as a military power.

Both Navy and Air Force navigators are trained in celestial navigation. There is a section of the pentagon that is charged with devising methods to complete missions when everything goes wrong.

Our military has never ever put all its eggs in one basket. It is nearly always several steps ahead of its worst critics.

14 posted on 12/27/2006 8:02:02 AM PST by Common Tator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: DugwayDuke

LOL!


15 posted on 12/27/2006 8:02:55 AM PST by PUGACHEV
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Hawthorn

Most people can't even find the north star these days. If you ask most kids these days they immediately point the the brightest thing in the sky at the moment.


16 posted on 12/27/2006 8:03:09 AM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: DugwayDuke

"Grounding of a satellite is rather simple."

I grounded mine last night... "No TV for a week!"


17 posted on 12/27/2006 8:06:45 AM PST by YouPosting2Me
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
This is just one of the dangers in dropping all other nav aids in favor of GPS, a system than can be shut-down by an enemy, leaving the U.S. with little upon which to fall back.

What navigational aids would function in the event of a nuclear exchange sufficient to knock out big chunks of the GPS constellation? The only other one I know is Loran, and I'm pretty sure that would get fried, too.

18 posted on 12/27/2006 8:08:18 AM PST by Caesar Soze
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DugwayDuke

Betcha 10 to one somebody has bent back the grounding prong on the cord to make it fit...


19 posted on 12/27/2006 8:10:01 AM PST by Eye of Unk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Hawthorn

It's worse than you think: back in the 1980s, the purely opto-mechanical averagers on airborne sextants were replaced with electronic averagers. Yes, it was faster. . .but fry the chips, and you're SOL. And the mechanical averagers didn't need aircraft power either...


20 posted on 12/27/2006 8:10:39 AM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border: I dare you to try and cross it. . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
In today's world there is simply no limit to the number of ways our enemies can wreak havoc on us and our way of life. If we protect against EMP attack then we are still vulnerable to all the other kinds of attack.

The ONLY way to be certain our future is secure from attacks by those who wish us harm is do eliminate those who wish us harm. Anything else is worthless.

Fortunately for us the list of those who wish us harm and wish it intently enough to do something about it is a very short list.

Until we make it clear to anyone and everyone that protecting and securing our freedom and way of life will henceforth and forever more be the number one determinant in how we defend ourselves from perceived threats we will have to worry about every ship that enters our harbors, every aircraft that lands on our airports, etc. There is no way to eliminate individual attacks on more than a catch-as-catch-can basis.

If we are going to win this war, and it is a war, we will have to go after the Islamofascists like our lives depended on it. It will not make us popular around the world, but those who wish us harm have left us no choice.

At some point we are going to have to resign ourselves to "thinking outside the box." Things that we would NEVER have considered pre-9/11 are going to have to be on the table.

We will need to take into consideration the effect our actions are going to have on the "moderate" Arab street, but we need to serve notice this consideration is being push from its protected position near the top of the list to a spot way, way down the list.

We have no choice. It's this or it's over for us. The sooner we acknowledge this stark fact and begin to respond in terms that make it clear we're serious the more lives that will be saved over the long haul.
21 posted on 12/27/2006 8:14:59 AM PST by jwparkerjr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Common Tator

"Both Navy and Air Force navigators are trained in celestial navigation. There is a section of the pentagon that is charged with devising methods to complete missions when everything goes wrong."

Glad to hear it. That's why I enjoy this site so much.


22 posted on 12/27/2006 8:17:57 AM PST by Humble Servant (Keep it simple - do what's right.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

Not to mention all fuel injected auto's would be rendered useless. Makes one want to keep a cheapo carbureted dirt bike around...


23 posted on 12/27/2006 8:19:11 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Common Tator

Womder if the field artillery still learns manual fire direction? Went to Ft. Stewart for an FDC course back in the 80s that was built around the then fairly new BUCS. We still had to learn to use charge sticks and firing tables and do manual met reports along with plotting everything on the chart tables, index lines, firing points, and safety T's. I always figured we's be SOL if the batteries died.


24 posted on 12/27/2006 8:22:21 AM PST by skepsel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: jwparkerjr

I'm with you. Let's do it to them before they do it to us.


25 posted on 12/27/2006 8:22:51 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Caesar Soze
What navigational aids would function in the event of a nuclear exchange sufficient to knock out big chunks of the GPS constellation?

Well, an accelerometer/inertial guidance system (entirely self contained) would work provided the electronics were shielded from the EMP, but of course you'd need some way to reference the distance traveled to your actual location. (manual entry of lat/longs?)
26 posted on 12/27/2006 8:23:28 AM PST by July 4th (A vacant lot cancelled out my vote for Bush.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Common Tator
Both Navy and Air Force navigators are trained in celestial navigation.

I took some ROTC courses at Wisconsin when I was there in the 1990s. They had an entire class on orienteering, mostly for land-based navigation, but it was old-school style stuff. Sun, moon, stars, compass, etc.
27 posted on 12/27/2006 8:25:44 AM PST by July 4th (A vacant lot cancelled out my vote for Bush.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
"Then again, what's to prevent Iran or North Korea from setting off a nuke in low orbit, just to mess up everyone's satellites?"

How about they have to get it there first? And that will be a very long time.

28 posted on 12/27/2006 8:26:28 AM PST by DaGman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The Great RJ
There are also non nuclear means of generating EMP, though the effects are not as wide spread as with a sub orbital nuke.

Correct. There's the quick and dirty method and then there's the surgical strike method.

29 posted on 12/27/2006 8:27:09 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (This is my tagline. There are many like it but this one is mine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Hawthorn

Last time I went up I used IFR---I follow roads.

Works for me. I do wonder if LORAN could be brought back...


30 posted on 12/27/2006 8:27:25 AM PST by Crucis Country
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: taxed2death
It's fairly simple to prevent emp from destroying electronics. Note I did not say cheap. Grounding your car with a piece of steel or copper cable would do. Faraday cages work for small stuff as well.

"Faraday cages can be built to totally enclose sensitive equipment not in use. This subject is covered in more detail at this link for Faraday cages. In general, the equipment is placed in a metal or foil covered box, insulated on the inside, and preferably grounded. Exposed radios and similar equipment are extremely difficult to protect, particularly if they are plugged into a 110 volt household electric circuit. In that case, spare equipment stored in Faraday cages would be most advantageous. If the Faraday cages are sitting on a conductive surface, they should be grounded. Grounding is safer in any case, though. The second problem, long line accumulation of an EMP surge, requires isolation of equipment and proper grounding, so the EMP pulse has an easier path to earth than through the equipment. Ground rods should be driven down to wet earth, if at all possible, to provide a sufficient ground. That may mean an 8 foot ground rod, or even longer, depending upon your location."

Credit to End Times Report.

31 posted on 12/27/2006 8:29:00 AM PST by oneolcop (Take off the gloves!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
I'm kind of skeptical about EMP from a 20 kT fission-style atomic bomb given the famous Dominic Starfish Prime nuclear test in 1962 that caused all that EMP required a 1.4 megaton nuclear warhead detonated at 248 miles up. A 20 kT warhead would have effects more like that of a X-class solar flare, and today's power grid are designed to quickly shrug off the effects of such solar flares.
32 posted on 12/27/2006 8:31:45 AM PST by RayChuang88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

Most Iowans know how to find North by using a standard(non-digital, non-electric watch. I do not fear EMP beyond the initial change. Oh, and the fact I won't be able to play my PS3.


33 posted on 12/27/2006 8:32:00 AM PST by Sensei Ern (http://www.myspace.com/reconcomedy - Time's 2006 Person of the Year)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot
That would be a major setback to the Iranian nuclear weapons program, and the Iranian economy.

Trivial... as compared to what it would do here or in any western nation.

34 posted on 12/27/2006 8:32:36 AM PST by johnny7 ("We took a hell of a beating." -'Vinegar Joe' Stilwell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: pabianice; All

http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm


35 posted on 12/27/2006 8:33:12 AM PST by houeto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: oneolcop
"Faraday cages can be built to totally enclose sensitive equipment not in use."


UUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

Don't remind me!
In the early 80's I helped a good friend of mine build a Faraday cage out of his whole cellar for a recording studio. We lined the floors, walls and ceilings with thin copper sheeting and soldered it together, removed all the fluorescent lighting and replaced it with incandescent, we even lined the doors and the door jambs. whew!
what a job that was. I'll not volunteer for that one if ever asked again.
36 posted on 12/27/2006 8:33:43 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: johnny7
Trivial... as compared to what it would do here or in any western nation.

They're a lot closer to the Stone Age already. Not as far for them to fall.

37 posted on 12/27/2006 8:37:31 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with EPI, you're not a conservative!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: oneolcop
Grounding your car with a piece of steel or copper cable would do.

That won't protect the ICs. The chips will be damaged internally, chassis grounded or not.

38 posted on 12/27/2006 8:40:40 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: jwparkerjr
In today's world there is simply no limit to the number of ways our enemies can wreak havoc on us and our way of life.

Look what a little fecal matter on some lettuce did.
39 posted on 12/27/2006 8:41:17 AM PST by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT
There are 24 of them, orbiting at 11K miles up. GPS fact sheet

Yes, we can orbit a few replacements (probably on much shorter notice than advertised if we militarily really need to). But there will be a period of time (pessimistically a few weeks, optimistically a few hours) where GPS is degraded significantly. And now everybody (from car drivers to airplanes and ships) use GPS

40 posted on 12/27/2006 8:42:36 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

I think that two weeks of "shock and awe" on their governmental, military, and infrastructure would do the trick.

The people of Iran do not want their leaders, nor the religious nuts that run the country. They would do the rest.

We should move to a strategy of using air power and leaving the cleanup to the people.


41 posted on 12/27/2006 8:42:55 AM PST by Paloma_55 (I may be a hateful bigot, but I still love you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

Doesn't Iran have all their sensitive military HQ underground, where it would be safe ? I think I remember reading that.


42 posted on 12/27/2006 8:44:50 AM PST by Red Boots
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar
Look what a little fecal matter on some lettuce did

If an enemy really wanted to harm this country, he would hit the food and water supplies. Might not make a pretty explosion for the TV cameras like taking down a couple of buildings would, but the effect on the economy would be devastating.
43 posted on 12/27/2006 9:11:59 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (A liberal is a suicide bomber without the guts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
...EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse)...

I want the handheld version of this device so I can fry the electronics in the car of all those a**holes who drive slow in the passing lane on the freeway...

44 posted on 12/27/2006 9:15:42 AM PST by Snardius (How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RayChuang88

True, but the Starfish test occured in a more robust electronic environment, as opposed to the ultra miniturized current state of technology.

Of course, 20 jihadis with dynamite taking down spreadout transmission towers during peak deman time would probably be about as effective to shutting down the grid.


45 posted on 12/27/2006 9:22:04 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
I think the whole EMP thing is played up for more dangerous than it really is.

The military has been aware of this potential problem for decades and took steps decades ago to remedy it. I know because in the early 80's I was a computer repairman in the Air Force and ten year old equipment had EMP proof circuitry in them.

46 posted on 12/27/2006 9:25:47 AM PST by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PUGACHEV

Back in the 80s, the DIA spent a lot of money with GE and Harris to develop rad-hardened, EMP resistant RAM, processors and gate arrays using exotic materials. For the most part they were successful.

A hardened satellite would use those materials as well as conventional shielding.

A scientist on the project once told me that most unexplained computer crashes were caused by a hot particle passing through your RAM and flipping its state.


47 posted on 12/27/2006 9:31:12 AM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: pabianice

"Then again, what's to prevent Iran or North Korea from setting off a nuke in low orbit, just to mess up everyone's satellites?"

For one thing, the advanced nations can tune their bombs to give off more or less emp. They may even be able to make shaped emp blasts for all I know.


48 posted on 12/27/2006 9:53:55 AM PST by FastCoyote
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jwparkerjr
"The ONLY way to be certain our future is secure from attacks by those who wish us harm is do eliminate those who wish us harm."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Very good! (How could that be compressed into a tagline...?)

49 posted on 12/27/2006 9:58:51 AM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: BearWash

"That won't protect the ICs."

My 67 Camaro doesn't have no stinkin ICs.


50 posted on 12/27/2006 10:01:17 AM PST by FastCoyote
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-92 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson