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Morals, not a vaccine, needed in middle school
The Virginian Pilot ^ | 1/20/07 | Kerry Dougherty

Posted on 01/20/2007 12:54:51 PM PST by wagglebee

Let's walk through a medical minefield together.

Merck & Co., a major drug manufacturer, has developed a vaccine called Gardasil that protects against some forms of the sexually transmitted human papillomavirus. Another pharmaceutical company is nearly ready to market something similar.

Good.

Experts claim HPV vaccines can protect women against cervical cancer.

Terrific.

For the vaccine to work, it should be administered before a woman becomes sexually active.

Logical.

So, health professionals recommend that girls as young as 11 receive the shots.

Troubling.

There's only one conclusion to be drawn by this tender age limit: more than a few girls are having sex at 12.

These waifs don't need a vaccine. They need morals. And parents to tell them not to have sex in middle school, lest they catch a nasty disease. Like genital warts, which are not prevented by the shots.

Then again, who needs parents when you have state government?

Enter Del. Phillip Hamilton of Newport News. He's introduced HB2035, which would add the HPV vaccine to the list of inoculations girls will need to enter sixth grade in the fall of 2008. You read that correctly. Sixth grade.

This isn't just a single shot. It's a series of three. The cost is about $360, and according to news reports, some health insurance companies don't cover it.

Not to worry. On Friday, Hamilton told me that once the vaccine is mandatory, chances are insurance companies will pay.

Hang on to your wallets, folks. This is going to cost us.

"If it becomes mandatory, the health department has to offer it for free," Hamilton acknowledged.

Of course, taxpayers fund the health departments, so we'll get to pay - twice. Once in our insurance premiums and again in our taxes.

The price for this medical munificence? When I spoke to him, Hamilton didn't have the data.

The delegate does know he's against cancer, though. Hamilton told me that if drug companies develop vaccines against other cancers - prostate or colon, for instance - he'd support making those immunizations mandatory, too.

The justification for all this government meddling in our immune systems requires a leap of logic that Hamilton has made: You must equate the danger of HPV with devastating diseases such as polio.

Sorry, delegate. There's no comparison. HPV can be controlled by behavior. Behavior that shouldn't be going on in middle school.

Parents who think it's a good idea to vaccinate their little girls against sexually transmitted diseases can do it. No need for a mandate.

You may wonder why Hamilton introduced this measure.

Is he responding to parental demand? Is he doing this because pediatricians think it's a swell idea?

Nope. In fact, The Pilot reported that the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends the vaccine but isn't yet asking states to make it mandatory.

According to news reports, Hamilton, chairman of the House Committee on Health, Welfare and Institutions, introduced this bill at the behest of the pharmaceutical industry.

Let's at least be honest and call this the Merck Mandate. How many votes would that get?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cervicalcancer; hpvvaccine; moralabsolutes; publikskoolz; teensex
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There's only one conclusion to be drawn by this tender age limit: more than a few girls are having sex at 12.

These waifs don't need a vaccine. They need morals. And parents to tell them not to have sex in middle school, lest they catch a nasty disease. Like genital warts, which are not prevented by the shots.

It is very troubling to me that when this vaccine is talked about, it is almost never mentioned that it is for a sexually transmitted disease.

1 posted on 01/20/2007 12:54:52 PM PST by wagglebee
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2 posted on 01/20/2007 12:55:15 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
Enter Del. Phillip Hamilton of Newport News. He's introduced HB2035, which would add the HPV vaccine to the list of inoculations girls will need to enter sixth grade in the fall of 2008.

*************

I suspect that if I had a teenage daughter, I might have her vaccinated. To require vaccination by law, particularly at this young age, seems to me to be an unwarranted intrusion by government. Parents alone should have the right to make this decision.

3 posted on 01/20/2007 1:02:37 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

The lovely Commonwealth of Virginia is usually pretty conservative. I hope this one gets knocked down. And this Hamilton fella was urged by Merck to introduce this bill... sounds like he may be in their back pocket.


4 posted on 01/20/2007 1:04:19 PM PST by brwnsuga
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To: wagglebee

Why is the young age at the time of vaccination so troubling to some? Is it a case of, "Why do today what I can put off until tomorrow?" Why put it off?


5 posted on 01/20/2007 1:05:57 PM PST by Caesar Soze
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To: wagglebee
Hello? No matter the age, it will cost the same. So let's 86 that red herring.
6 posted on 01/20/2007 1:07:00 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: wagglebee

Strict enforcement of discipline using corporal punishment, not morals, needed in middle school.


7 posted on 01/20/2007 1:07:50 PM PST by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
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To: trisham
"Parents alone should have the right to make this decision."

If the child gets infected, who pays? Uh-huh.

8 posted on 01/20/2007 1:11:31 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: wagglebee

So, how long has this vaccine been tested?

I thought I came across something saying five years. That is not long enough for me to feel comfortable giving to my 13 year old.


9 posted on 01/20/2007 1:12:30 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delenda est publius schola)
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To: wagglebee

Uh...HPV and Genital warts are the same thing.Genital warts are caused by certain types of the human papilloma virus (HPV). The shots immunize the recipient against HPV and thus genital warts.

What these 12 year olds need is morals, counselling, and the shots.


10 posted on 01/20/2007 1:12:53 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: brwnsuga

One of the reasons that the HPV vaccination is very important is the fact that even in monogamous moral adult relationships the male partner may be a carrier all the while without ever knowing or showing any symptoms.


11 posted on 01/20/2007 1:13:35 PM PST by veganhoosier
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To: robertpaulsen
If the child gets infected, who pays? Uh-huh.

*************

Would you apply this to all matters of health? At what point would you deny government interference?

12 posted on 01/20/2007 1:13:50 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: robertpaulsen

You know, that sounds like my Canadaian relatives that resent others in the family getting expensive medical care. They thought they didn't deserve it. What are we coming to as people? As a nation?


13 posted on 01/20/2007 1:14:41 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delenda est publius schola)
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To: veganhoosier
One of the reasons that the HPV vaccination is very important is the fact that even in monogamous moral adult relationships the male partner may be a carrier all the while without ever knowing or showing any symptoms.

*************

True. There's also, unfortunately, the possibility of rape.

14 posted on 01/20/2007 1:15:28 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: veganhoosier

Maybe then males need to get mandatory testing for this virus then.

Is there one? Probably not. Figures!


15 posted on 01/20/2007 1:17:05 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delenda est publius schola)
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To: TruthConquers
What are we coming to as people? As a nation?

**************

It's a Brave New World.

16 posted on 01/20/2007 1:19:26 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

Shudder! I fear you are right.


17 posted on 01/20/2007 1:20:56 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delenda est publius schola)
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To: wagglebee

Uhh, this is really stupid. It protects you from more then STD's, and even if you assume that they will wait, which would be nice, but it is impossible to know for sure, at least after they turn 18, and even at that, they can always be raped, as horrible as that might be, I'd rather not get an STD from it too.

This kind of thinking is the kind of thinking that makes social conservatives look like moonbats.


18 posted on 01/20/2007 1:25:41 PM PST by zbigreddogz
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To: trisham

This is the problem that the new breed of social conservatives don't seem to get. They seem to think of the government ever, at any point, might theoretically have to pay for the ills caused by social behavior, they have the right to regulate it. We use to call those people liberals...

I don't know where this breed of social conservatives came from, I'm a traditional social conservative, but they are the biggest part of what is driving the libertarian leaning conservatives to the Democrat.


19 posted on 01/20/2007 1:27:39 PM PST by zbigreddogz
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From Gardasil.com


GARDASIL is the only vaccine that may help guard against diseases that are caused by human papillomavirus (HPV) Types 6, 11, 16, and 18:
...
HPV Types 16 and 18 cause 70% of cervical cancer cases, and HPV Types 6 and 11 cause 90% of genital warts cases.
20 posted on 01/20/2007 1:29:19 PM PST by webboy45
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To: Caesar Soze

It's troubling because it is based on the assumption that all 11-year old girls will soon be promiscuous and that, therefore, they must be vaccinated against this STD. It is also troubling because giving girls this vaccine is tacitly giving them permission to engage in immoral behavior.


21 posted on 01/20/2007 1:34:57 PM PST by steadfastconservative
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To: wagglebee
"These waifs don't need a vaccine. They need morals."

Yes they do need a vaccine, and they don't need someone to advocate that they get cancer. Who the hell died and made this guy the one who passes judgment on the morals of 12 year olds?

Some people just really p**s me off.

22 posted on 01/20/2007 1:35:03 PM PST by DaGman
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To: wagglebee
This is my field. We have talked about this in the workplace and have come to the conclusion that it is a big money-maker for the drug companies. HPV is a virus and viruses mutate. Think about how often the flu virus changes. The flu vaccine is always made up of the virus from the previous year and doesn't help all people. I don't have a daughter but I would definitely teach her the morals first. And we don't know the long-term effects that this vaccine is going to have. It is not a silver bullet either. At this point it will prevent some, but not all, of the HPV strains that cause Cervical Cancer.
23 posted on 01/20/2007 1:39:26 PM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: webboy45

The key phrase in this quote is "may help guard." It does not say that Gardisil "will prevent" diseases caused by HPV. This is hardling a ringing endorsement of this drug's effectiveness.


24 posted on 01/20/2007 1:40:40 PM PST by steadfastconservative
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To: steadfastconservative; webboy45
And we need to keep in mind that this information comes from Merck, drug companies in the past told everyone how wonderful drugs like Vioxx, Phen-Phen and thalidomide were.
25 posted on 01/20/2007 1:43:15 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: TruthConquers

There is a test for HPV, both the low-risk strains and the high-risk strains. Most women who receive an abnormal pap smear reading are referred for this test. I believe it is a blood test.


26 posted on 01/20/2007 1:43:46 PM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: tomcorn

All this pontificating never takes into account that this children can be sexually assaulted or molested, and possibly get a disease that will scar them and put them at risk of cancer for the rest of their lives.

Trying to make this an either / or argument is stupid. There is a vaccine that can prevent suffering and is insurance against the unknown. That is how it should be viewed.


27 posted on 01/20/2007 1:51:14 PM PST by flashbunny (If the founding fathers were alive today, they'd be buying feathers and boiling tar.)
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To: trisham

Vaccination should only be required for a casually transmissable disease. The transmission of HPV should not be a possibility in any decently run school.

Mrs VS


28 posted on 01/20/2007 1:52:29 PM PST by heartwood
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To: originalbuckeye

Sounds like it can be tested for in males with a blood test.

Why is this not required for the blood tests for marriage?
Seems logical if it could be tested for, both should know.


29 posted on 01/20/2007 1:59:29 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delenda est publius schola)
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To: wagglebee
So, health professionals recommend that girls as young as 11 receive the shots.

Troubling.

There's only one conclusion to be drawn by this tender age limit: more than a few girls are having sex at 12.


Sorry, that's not the right conclusion. The doctors are looking at the issue with dry amoral scientific detachment. The doctors understand that the potential for sexual behavior occurs with the onset of puberty. The vaccine has to be taken before a girl is sexually active. Therefore, the vaccine needs to be taken before the onset of puberty.

The doctors are not making a value judgement. They're making a risk assessment. If the vaccine is worthless after exposure to HPV, then the best time to give the vaccine would be before any chance of sexual activity. If there is the slightest risk that the girl is already sexually active, the vaccine is useless. So the doctors have selected a moment with the least amount of risk.

You're right when you see that there is no moral value at all attached to the decision. It's strictly a rational decision made to reduce the incidence of cervical cancer. That doesn't negate the value or the need for morals; it just means that the doctor's job is to prevent and cure disease. The transmission of morals is the job of other institutions in our society - parents, family, churches.

These waifs don't need a vaccine. They need morals. And parents to tell them not to have sex in middle school, lest they catch a nasty disease. Like genital warts, which are not prevented by the shots.

We all need a moral foundation, preferably based on sound religious principles. Given a choice, I prefer both the vaccine and the moral foundation.

Imagine being an 11-year-old girl and going into a doctor's office to get a series of shots. The doctor and your parents tell you that there is a sexually transmitted disease that can cause cancer and kill you, but this shot will prevent that. I would think that most girls would focus on the other dangers presented by sexual activity, not see those shots as an invitation to fornicate.

However, I wouldn't want to look at my dying daughter and tell her that I chose not to give her the vaccine when she was young because I thought she'd be a slutty seventh grader. That would be more pain that I think I could bear.

30 posted on 01/20/2007 1:59:42 PM PST by redpoll (redpoll)
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To: flashbunny

No body is saying dont get the shots..just who should pay and if its your kid then you should pay..see how that works?


31 posted on 01/20/2007 2:00:56 PM PST by skaterboy
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To: wagglebee
"It is very troubling to me that when this vaccine is talked about, it is almost never mentioned that it is for a sexually transmitted disease."

And that it's not little virgin boys that transmit them.

32 posted on 01/20/2007 2:01:21 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: redpoll

well take her to the doc and YOU pay for the shots..easy as pie and if you dont think docs are getting paid by the drug companies then you should not have kids anyway


33 posted on 01/20/2007 2:03:12 PM PST by skaterboy
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To: wagglebee
It is very troubling to me that when this vaccine is talked about, it is almost never mentioned that it is for a sexually transmitted disease.

Whatever! The notion that anyone would be against girls getting a vaccine that could prevent the scourge of cancer, is insane IMO.

34 posted on 01/20/2007 2:05:36 PM PST by veronica (http://images20.fotki.com/v360/photos/1/106521/3848737/gladysPSCP-vi.jpg)
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To: skaterboy

"...well take her to the doc and YOU pay for the shots..easy as pie and if you dont think docs are getting paid by the drug companies then you should not have kids anyway..."

I'm all in favor of personal responsibility for medical care. I would recommend using punctuation and your spell check, though.


35 posted on 01/20/2007 2:06:27 PM PST by redpoll (redpoll)
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To: webboy45

My daughter would most likely get this if I choose and see the use but to order others to pay for what my child needs is silly..


36 posted on 01/20/2007 2:07:02 PM PST by skaterboy
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To: redpoll
All the more reason to teach her that sexual promiscuity can kill you. That sex is not a sport, or a recreational activity. Teach her to respect herself and wait until she is mature and wise enough and financially responsible enough to procreate when she finds the right person with the same qualities.
37 posted on 01/20/2007 2:10:11 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: wagglebee

If you want your child to have it then do it and my daughter will most likely get it if and when the time comes as part of her health but to sit back and want others to do my job is stupid ...thats all the article is saying but some on here want to tie em down and try that then fine but it wont work and some on here wanna be chicken littles and yell ooooooooooh the children ooooh the children..all that is needed is common sense..


38 posted on 01/20/2007 2:11:23 PM PST by skaterboy
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To: wagglebee

I don't understand why it is not also recommended that boys get the shots. If you vaccinated both sexes, it seems to me you'd have a better chance of getting rid of (or at least greatly reducing) this disease in a generation or two.


39 posted on 01/20/2007 2:11:37 PM PST by Hetty_Fauxvert (Kelo must GO!! ..... http://sonoma-moderate.blogspot.com/)
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To: zbigreddogz

I'm a traditional social conservative, but they are the biggest part of what is driving the libertarian leaning conservatives to the Democrat


In what world is this? Libertarian leaning conservatives becoming democrats? I truly doubt any libertarian is becoming democrats...like keeping your virginty by becoming a hooker


40 posted on 01/20/2007 2:15:12 PM PST by skaterboy
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To: wagglebee

Parents who think it's a good idea to vaccinate their little girls against sexually transmitted diseases can do it. No need for a mandate


See how easy common sense is?


41 posted on 01/20/2007 2:16:25 PM PST by skaterboy
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To: wagglebee

More experimentation by drug companies on our population. How do we know that these drugs won't permanently damage these people. The drug companies are not concerned with curing you of anything just treatments.


42 posted on 01/20/2007 2:18:18 PM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: skaterboy

funny how you draw that conclusion when the subject of the article was morals, not money. And that most people when they comment on this vaccine don't comment on who should pay, but instead talk about sex.


43 posted on 01/20/2007 2:20:08 PM PST by flashbunny (If the founding fathers were alive today, they'd be buying feathers and boiling tar.)
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To: veronica

Having a little responsibility for their actions will prevent it just as effectively, and NOT cost the taxpayer anything at all.
Until they or their parent(s) can afford to pay for their own shots, I don't agree that it should be a cost born by the taxpayer either. People can and should be responsible for their own health and well being. If they are victims of themselves, too bad.


44 posted on 01/20/2007 2:24:39 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: steadfastconservative
It's troubling because it is based on the assumption that all 11-year old girls will soon be promiscuous and that, therefore, they must be vaccinated against this STD.

Assumption or not, like I said, why put it off?

It is also troubling because giving girls this vaccine is tacitly giving them permission to engage in immoral behavior.

I've been vaccinated against Hep A and Hep B, and have never felt that I have permission to share needles with Hepatitis patients. In fact, I don't think the vaccines I've received have informed my behavior at all.

45 posted on 01/20/2007 2:25:03 PM PST by Caesar Soze
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert
"I don't understand why it is not also recommended that boys get the shots. If you vaccinated both sexes, it seems to me you'd have a better chance of getting rid of (or at least greatly reducing) this disease in a generation or two."

Probably because boys don't have vagina's and uteruses which is where the virus-disease manifests itself into cancer at a later time in the girls life.

46 posted on 01/20/2007 2:27:44 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: originalbuckeye
HPV is a virus and viruses mutate. Think about how often the flu virus changes. The flu vaccine is always made up of the virus from the previous year and doesn't help all people.

Influenza is an RNA-based virus with a high mutation rate. HPV is a double-strand DNA virus with a much lower mutation rate.

47 posted on 01/20/2007 2:27:59 PM PST by Caesar Soze
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To: wagglebee

They're trying to do this in Colorado,too--another conservative state. I would want my daughter to get this but I DON'T want the government forcing my daughter to get it--under the assumption that she will havve sex before marriage.

This is a whole lot like condoms in schools. We tacitly assume that our kids will start grooving well before marriage and so we try to "accomodate" their behavior. Condoms and HPV vaccines should be available--don't get me wrong--but they should be last restorts for those who don't follow the societal standard of abstinence.


48 posted on 01/20/2007 2:30:27 PM PST by Rawlings (Romney Time!)
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To: Caesar Soze

Much lower but still mutates.


49 posted on 01/20/2007 2:35:38 PM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: zbigreddogz

I call them rinos or statists.


50 posted on 01/20/2007 2:46:14 PM PST by darkangel82 (Socialism is NOT an American value.)
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