Giuliani a tough conservative sell

AP on Yahoo ^ | 1/25/07 | Liz Sidoti - ap

[NormsRevenge]

WASHINGTON - Rudy Giuliani's star has hardly dimmed in the five years since terrorists attacked his city on Sept. 11, 2001, and he became a national hero _ the face of U.S. resolve at a time of tragedy.

The Republican dubbed "America's Mayor" hopes to ride that celebrity and his record at City Hall to the White House by emphasizing his leadership skills and embracing the strong-on-security, limited-government tenets of the GOP.

"If he can handle the scrutiny, and if events break his way, sure, he can win," said Fred Siegel, who wrote a Giuliani biography, "The Prince of the City."

Giuliani's quest to capture his party's presidential nomination won't be easy.

He's a moderate Republican from New York City, on the wrong side of social issues in the eyes of hard-core conservatives who are a crucial voting bloc in the primaries. His mayoral tenure was marked by criticism of an overzealous police force. He's linked to the city's scandal-plagued ex-police chief Bernard Kerik. His thicket of business interests could pose conflicts. He's been divorced twice.

"I sure have strengths and weaknesses," Giuliani said recently. "I think that sort of puts me in the same category as just about everybody else that's running. Are my strengths greater or my weaknesses worse? I don't know. You have to sort of examine that. That won't be the issue."

His challenge will be to remind voters of his take-charge attitude on Sept. 11 and his two-term mayoral reign, at the same time his main rivals _ Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) of Arizona and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney _ no doubt will try to exploit his background and record. For now, both are trying to gauge how much of a threat he may be.

Giuliani, who formed a presidential exploratory committee last year, is betting that the Republican rank-and-file will look past his liabilities. His aides dismiss skeptics who say he has too many flaws to win over primary voters a year from now.

"I believe they'll look at the picture as a whole," said Tony Carbonetti, Giuliani's longtime political adviser. "This (New York) was an unmanageable city, and I think what people want today is a manager, someone to lead in difficult times and to lead in not-difficult times.

"We're going to continue to tell that story," he said.

Before Sept. 11, Giuliani was known as the hard-charging prosecutor-turned-politician who cleaned up Times Square, led the city out of fiscal despair and brought Republican rule back to the liberal mecca.

Giuliani, of course, made enemies in the process, but on Sept. 11 even his chronic critics were muted when he took charge amid the rubble of the World Trade Center's twin towers. To many, he became a picture of strength, a reminder of the resilience of the American spirit.

"He has a connection to that. He is unique. On the other hand you look at the politics and you say this is a problem," said Alex Vogel, a Republican strategist in Washington who is not affiliated with any presidential candidate.

"The question is: Can you win a Republican primary a different way? History keeps saying no. But history has never presented us with someone whose favorability numbers are as high as Rudy's."

Indeed, national polls have consistently shown him leading for the GOP nomination, and early surveys in key states show him ahead or competitive. He travels to one important state, New Hampshire, this weekend where he will give the keynote address at the state GOP's annual meeting.

For all the hype since 2001, Giuliani didn't start preparing for a presidential run in earnest until after November's elections. Thus, he has lagged behind McCain and Romney in courting fundraisers, setting up a national organization and hiring ground operatives in key states, although he has made progress on all fronts recently.

Giuliani's aides insist they're making strides toward filling out his campaign. They say he can raise the $80 million to $100 million necessary this year for a serious run. Name recognition, obviously, isn't an issue.

Neither, his supporters argue, is likability. They say he appeals to people across the political spectrum and in every region of the country, meaning he could expand the general election playing field. That, his backers say, makes him the Republican most likely to beat the presumptive Democratic front-runner, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

Perhaps.

But first he has to capture the GOP nomination _ and the big question is whether he can win over enough Republicans in states like Iowa and South Carolina, among the first nominating contests where voters are solid conservatives and could be turned off by his stance on social issues.

"Giuliani is going to have to convince people that he's more conservative than his record otherwise would suggest," said Peverill Squire, who teaches politics at the University of Iowa.

The former mayor's support for abortion rights, gay rights and gun control conflict with the hard-line positions of the GOP's right. His supporters say he's not as liberal on those issues as he's made out to be. Still, he's from New York _ and that alone rankles the party's conservative wing.

Despite that, Giuliani's backers contend _ and some Republican strategists agree _ that he could get support from fiscal conservatives because of his record of cutting taxes, curbing spending and promoting small government, particularly now when the base is smarting over the soaring federal deficit under Republicans.

And, with the country still at war, his link to Sept. 11 _ the brand of a strong leader _ could trump the base's concerns about his background and stand on social issues.

"Giuliani's national security credentials will allow him to span ideological divides in the Republican Party and win conservative votes," said Greg Strimple, a GOP strategist in New York who is neutral in the race.

Unknown is whether Giuliani can woo enough of those base Republican voters to win the nomination and, if not, whether he can make up the difference by attracting independents and Democrats.

"His opening could come if people really think that somebody like Hillary is running away with it, and if there's a perception that only Giuliani can beat her," said John Truscott, an unaffiliated Republican strategist in Michigan.

Another factor that could help Giuliani is how the primary calendar shakes out.

New Hampshire and Michigan hold early contests, and New Jersey, California, Illinois, Florida and other states viewed as more hospitable to a moderate may schedule their votes earlier in the year, perhaps lessening the importance of a strong showing for Giuliani in Iowa and South Carolina.

For all the obstacles, even folks with ties to Giuliani's opponents can't deny that the New Yorker has a shot.

Said Ken Khachigian of California, who served as a strategist for President Reagan and was with McCain in 2000: "I would never sell Giuliani short."

[NormsRevenge]

Rudy Giuliani, left, and his wife Judy Nathan pose for a photographer after the inaugural fundraiser of the 2006 election cycle for his political action committee, Solutions America PAC's for in New York in this June 13, 2006. National polls have consistently found Giuliani leading for the GOP presidential nomination, and early surveys in key states show him ahead or competitive. Giuliani travels to one important state, New Hampshire, the weekend of Jan. 27-78, 2007, where he is scheduled to give the keynote address at the state GOP's annual meeting. (AP Photo/Shiho Fukada, File)

[FairOpinion]

Let's see Rudy or Hillary, Rudy or Hillary, Rudy or Hillary -- what a tough choice for a conservative. (/sarc)

[BunnySlippers]

Very nice.
Go Rudy Go!

[onyx]

But history has never presented us with someone whose favorability numbers are as high as Rudy's."

And there you have it. He is very well liked.

[BunnySlippers]

Oerpeptual Keysters

Supporting Hillary in 2008

[Jrabbit]

I like Rudy...

[NormsRevenge]

It may well come to that, but let's let the process play itself out, neither may be in the mix.

That would disappoint you to no end , huh?

[BigSkyFreeper]

My gut tells me, they're part of that "Republicans For Hillary" online movement.

[NormsRevenge]

I had hopes this thread wouldn't get 'keyed' like a nice shiny new car by a hoodlum. ;-) Oh well.. lol

[kinoxi]

I think his pictures in drag might have something to do with that.

[SierraWasp]

If the Republican Party kingmakers in the 60's, 70's and 80's followed your constant knee-jerk train of safest and easiest path of least resistance, then neither Goldwater or Reagan would never have ever become the Party's nominees and we would have spent the last four decades on our conservative knees!!!

Use you head for once, will ya woman???

[BigSkyFreeper]

And there you have it. He is very well liked.

If he is the party nominee, I will support him.

[NormsRevenge]

In the end, what he has done may well say a lot about him, unfortunately not everyone will agree on all that he has done as some here do.


Nonetheless, it shall make for some interesting debates and forums if and when we finally get to that point. 'Til then, expect to see a lot of spears chucked .. Ouch!

I haven't decided who I would or wouldn't vote for as President, we still have a pile of primaries to go thru til then. In the end, if it's him or her, It's him.

[Dreagon]

If the choice is those two....give me Hillary. That way the liberal at least is in the right party.

[BunnySlippers]

Perpetual Keysters: Hillary's Best Assets

[BunnySlippers]

Only to people you are sexually insecure.

[NormsRevenge]

on reflection, perhaps not the best thing to do .. but if that is the worst thing he did, at least he didn't wear a pink pantsuit. ;-)

[PzLdr]

I won't. If he's the GOP nominee, it will prove, to me at least, that the GOP has no other principle than to get in power; and that it is time for conservatives to torch the "big tent" and start a new party - because RINOs will always betray conservatives if given the chance.

[Spiff]

Let's see Rudy or Hillary, Rudy or Hillary, Rudy or Hillary -- what a tough choice for a conservative.

You liberal Rudy-rooters keep offering that LIE as if it is the ONLY choice for the 2008 election. There are now at least half a dozen Republican candidates and we're still VERY early in the Primary. Yet you all keep LYING and saying that the choice right now is Rudy or Hillary. Thankfully, most FReepers aren't that stupid and they don't believe your crap.

[weegee]

When you ask "CAN" this person do the job, Rudy can, Hillary and Obama don't have the experience.

Then it comes to politics. His divorces are considered a "negative". McCain has more negatives.

I'd like a solid conservative myself but don't know if we will see one take the national stage for 2008. I think that Rudy has a shot. Winning isn't everything, I agree. But Carter showed us how much damage can be done in 4 years as President. We can be picking up the pieces for generations.

Ultimately, while I am against abortion, I don't see the President's position on the issue to be of highest priority. The Supreme Court is not infallible and I do not see the issue being settled by judicial nomination. It is going to require a Constitutional amendment to clarify the protection of life (such an amendment could also address cloning and genetic screening as pretext for discrimination in employment and insurance, for example).

[Spiff]

The Real Rudy Giuliani:

• Pro-abortion - He even opposes banning partial birth murder.
• Anti-2nd Amendment - supports gun grabbing legislation including the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapon Ban
• Pro-big government - amassed unprecedented debt as Mayor of NYC
• Pro-radical gay agenda
  

  - Attended and marched in every gay pride parade in NYC while mayor (even one in 1992 that included a NAMBLA contingent of pedophile activists)
  - Attends and supports many functions and fund-raisers held by radical gay organizations (even did a cross dressing act at Pride Agenda fund-raiser)
  - Openly opposes Constitutional Amendment to protect tradition marriage which is supported by President Bush and the Republican Party Platform.
  - Supported "domestic partner" and "civil union" bills in City Council while mayor of NYC.
  - Submitted Gay "Domestic-Partner" Rights Bill to City Council giving gay and lesbian couples the same benefits reserved for married couples.
  - Said, "I'm proud of it" when referring to the gay "domestic partner" bill he submitted. Said, "National Republicans can lump it if they don't like this new domestic-partners bill...I think it puts New York City ahead of other places in the country."
  - Has received awards from several radical gay agenda organizations who support gay marriage for his support of their cause. Is considered a "champion" of gay "rights."
  - Lived with a gay "married" couple in Manhattan when he moved out of Gracie Mansion during his second divorce.
  - Said that homosexuality is "good and normal"
  

• Pro-illegal immigration - said no one in New York City is going to assist the federal government with the enforcement of immigration law, sued Feds in 1997 to be able to ignore immigration law, lost in court, vowed to ignore law anyway
• Endorses liberal Democrat candidates over Republicans - endorsed liberal Dem Mario Cuomo over Republican George Pataki in NY Governor's race
• Ran for NYC Mayor in 1994 on Liberal Party ticket. Appointed Liberal Party State Chair to a Deputy Mayor position. Endorsed 3 times by the Liberal Party for his liberal views.
• Holds many other liberal views
• Republican In Name Only - opposes many major planks of the GOP Platform

Read more about Giuliani's liberal positions here and here.

Some people want Republicans to ignore his liberalism on almost every issue and, as a distraction, they try to pretend that Rudy is fiscally conservative. Again, his record shows that he isn't fiscally conservative either:

According to an article in The Nation from 2002:

It's now apparent that Giuliani purchased the city's good times partially with borrowed money and left his successor, Mike Bloomberg, holding a bag of debt. New York City went from a $3 billion budget surplus in 1998 to a $4.5 billion deficit after Giuliani left office. This mismanagement of prosperity is a big part of his legacy. Giuliani left the city's finances in a mess...

Here are some things Giuliani did as Mayor that were NOT anywhere near being fiscally conservative:

• New York City went from a $3 billion budget surplus in 1998 to a $4.5 billion deficit after Giuliani left office.
  
• Added 25,000 government employees patronage hires to the city's payroll after promising to cut the work force.
  
• Giuliani's borrowing practices increased the city's debt burden by 50 percent.
  
• Partly because of Giuliani, New York City is now the biggest debtor in the nation outside of the federal government with $42 billion in loans outstanding.
  

According to the article from The Nation:

During the 1960s Giuliani was a self-described "Robert Kennedy Democrat." He identified with RFK as a liberal Catholic prosecutor. He volunteered for RFK's 1968 presidential campaign while he was a student at NYU Law School. Giuliani also voted for George McGovern in 1972. During the liberal 1960s, he was a liberal.

But in 1975 Giuliani switched his party registration from Democrat to Independent when he got a job in Gerald Ford's Justice Department, according to his mentor Harold "Ace" Tyler.

On December 8, 1980, Giuliani changed his registration from Independent to Republican. This was one month after Ronald Reagan's election, and just as he was applying for a top job in the Justice Department.

So, to sum that up:

• Liberal Democrat until 1975
• Worked as volunteer for Democrat Robert F. Kennedy's presidential campaign.
• Voted for liberal George McGovern.
• Liberal Independent from 1975-1980.
• Did not register as a Republican until 1980 and only AFTER Ronald Reagan was elected and because he was applying for a top job in the administration.

He's a liberal. He's not even in the same building as conservative. He's only a Republican because...and this comes from his own mother, Helen Giuliani:

"He only became a Republican after he began to get all these jobs from them. He's definitely not a conservative Republican. He thinks he is, but he isn't..."

And as John Hawkins put it in an excellent article in Human Events:

Despite all of his charisma and the wonderful leadership he showed after 9/11, Rudy Giuliani is not a Reagan Republican. To the contrary, Giuliani is another Christie Todd Whitman, another Arlen Specter, another Olympia Snowe. He's a throwback to the "bad old days" before Reagan, when the GOP was run by moderate Country Club Republicans who considered conservatives to be extremists. Trying to revive that failed strategy again is likely to lead to a Democratic President in 2008 and numerous setbacks for the Republican Party.

[billorites]

I like Rudy too.

I mean that I find him attractive, and friendly and nice.

I'd love to have him over the house.

Or, if he's out of town, his wife de jour can come over for the weekend. But I digress...

If he can win he gets my vote.

As would Mitt and even Darth McCain.

Newt's the guy that I somehow don't trust.

I'm closest philosophically to everything he advocates.

But somehow I just don't trust him for 10 seconds...
He may well be a weasel.

Am I a bad Republican?

[oceanview]

one thing about Rudy that alot of people outside NYC don't realize - the guy is blunt, and especially blunt with the media. this is a mayor who referred to the (gay) NYC public schools chancellor as "precious" at a press conference. expelling arafat from lincoln center (under what authority, I do not know) also comes to mind.

[kinoxi]

I don't really care about those pictures. The sheeple do. It's a campaign killer in my mind. Could you imagine the election commercials?

[BunnySlippers]

Full time job at the Hillary Campaign I see.

[ElPatriota]

It's time to help... There is new MAN in town :)

[Afronaut]

"And there you have it. He is very well liked."

So was Roseanne, for years in fact.

[NormsRevenge]

A fair assessment and no slams on anyone, Thanks!

[FairOpinion]

YOU SAID: "If the choice is those two (Rudy or Hillary)....give me Hillary.

I am saving your post for a time when someone will tell me again that it is not possible that a FReeper would prefer a Democrat, and it is beyond the wildest imagination for any FReeper to actually prefer Hillary.

As I said before NO REAL CONSERVATIVE could possibly prefer Hillary. You must really hate America to wish Hillary upon us. You have NO right to call yourself a conservative.

[onyx]

Me too. I will vote for and support our nominee. Period.

[CTSeditor]

This New Yorker would vote for Rudi

[School of Rational Thought]

Let's see Rudy or Hillary, Rudy or Hillary, Rudy or Hillary -- what a tough choice for a conservative. (/sarc)


Newt

[Cicero]

If Rudy continues to be strongly pro-abortion, it will rule him out for me and many others.

But I agree, he's good in most other ways. And he has a record for honesty, and saying what he means, so if he changes his position on abortion, or makes a commitment to appoint strict constructionist judges and not to reverse Bush's policies on abortions abroad and fetal stem cell research, I will probably take him at his word.

[SierraWasp]

It's no use, Dreagon... We tried to explain that to her in CA when it came to Maria's Conon-Sense The Barbarian husband! She's never gotten it and doesn't seem to ever want to, no matter what!!!

She just LOVES her political hermaphrodite Governor who is just decimating Republicanism in CA while thinking of no one but himself!!! It's really troubling to watch!!!

[FairOpinion]

Newt might just be able to beat Hillary.

After all, he was the one who put together the Republican "Contract with America" and took the House away from the Dems, after they had it for 40 years.

[upsdriver]

Not too tough! Neither!

[NormsRevenge]

Isn't Newt the one who also was working with Hillary on a healthcare reform package for a bit as well?

Not that that is necessarily a bad thing ,, but.. as it never came to fruition.

[Talking_Mouse]

The former mayor's support for abortion rights, gay rights and gun control conflict with the hard-line positions of the GOP's right.

He is a gun grabber who thinks it's okey to kill babies in the womb. Even for small government and tough on crime, I don't know if I can support someone who wants to take away my guns AND who can't recognize that abortion is murder.

[BunnySlippers]

While you'd be thrilled with Fatty Cruz Bustamante and his Killer Wife.

No thanks!

[BigSkyFreeper]

Why don't you just leave now while there's still time? I'm sick of folks like you who sit on your hands at every given moment, and call yourselves conservatives.

Anyone who is that lazy and whiny, obviously must be a liberal.

[oceanview]

Newt has high media generated negatives from his time as speaker - and the Dems are essentially going to run a candidate who is a "celebrity", not a political figure.

[Spiff]

As I said before NO REAL CONSERVATIVE could possibly prefer Hillary. You must really hate America to wish Hillary upon us. You have NO right to call yourself a conservative.

I'm not defending the guy that said he'd prefer Hillary. But, then again, both Hillary and Rudy are New York liberals and they only differ on precious few issues. NO REAL CONSERVATIVE could possibly support pro-abortion, gun-grabbing, pro-radical gay agenda, serial adulterer, big government liberal Rudy Giuliani. Rudy is the MOST LIBERAL REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE EVER and by supporting him in the PRIMARY election you sacrifice any claim to being a conservative.

[Sunsong]

And there you have it. He is very well liked.

And that is huge! Some people don't even have name recognition - and of the few who do - there is the likeability factor - with that smile, optimism, and excellent communications skills - it hard not to like him - even if you don't agree with everything he says or does.

[aynrandfreak]

Note to conservatives. AP is the one trashing Rudy. They don't want conservatives to vote for him because they know he's the best chance we've got to take the White House. This is just like when the Drive-by media did everything they could to keep conservatives home this past November.

[BW2221]

"But Carter showed us how much damage can be done in 4 years as President."

After Carter, we had Republican Presidential leadership for 18 of 26 years. Let me rephrase that: we had eight years of Reagan Presidential leadership and ten years of the Bushes.

[prov1813man]

Somebody show me a Reagan in this mix and none of us will be discussing this any further. The fact that we are debating the issue reveals that the ideal just isn't out there right now.

I would vote for Pee Wee Herman if Hillary was the other choice.

[PhiKapMom]

That one made me burst out laughing! You are AWESOME!

[onyx]

[icwhatudo]

Wow, devestating info. Replace the pic to the one in drag and print the fliers now!

[Dreagon]

LOL at anybody who supports Guiliani accusing anybody else of not being "a real conservative".

Guiliani - Hillary = not a dimes worth of difference.