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Gun crime: Labour 'losing control'
Press Association Ltd ^ | Jan 25 | unsourced

Posted on 01/29/2007 12:45:40 PM PST by TC Rider

Labour has been accused of losing control of gun crime as new figures show a sharp rise in armed robberies.

Guns were used in 4,120 robberies last year - a 10% jump - including a 9% rise to 1,439 in the number of street robberies where guns were used.

There was also a rapid and unexplained increase in the number of times householders were confronted in their own homes by armed criminals. Residential firearms robberies show a 46% leap, a record 645 cases in England and Wales - up 204 on the previous year and four times the level recorded in 2000-01.

The figures come a day after two men armed with a replica gun robbed a Home Office worker on his way home after sharing a curry with Home Secretary John Reid. The 29-year-old civil servant was making his way home in Beckenham, Kent, shortly before midnight when he was attacked.

A Met Police spokeswoman said the man's wallet and mobile phone were taken and confirmed that two teenage men remain in custody at a south London police station.

The Home Office report shows that handguns are the most commonly used firearm in robberies, reported in 2,888 cases.

Shadow home secretary David Davis said of the figures: "This shows Labour is losing control of gun crime across the board, whether it be on the street or in innocent people's homes.

"Gun crime is mainly fuelled by gang warfare and drug addiction, which is a consequence of Labour's failing drugs policy. It is exacerbated by our porous borders, which allow illegal weapons to flow into the country."

Home Office minister Tony McNulty said: "Firearm offences have fallen significantly, by 14% in the year up to September 2006, which amounts to 1,642 fewer incidents.

"While there is a small rise in residential firearm robberies, these account for a tiny proportion of recorded offences overall, although we recognise any firearm incident is traumatic for victims." He added: "We have some of the toughest firearm legislation in Europe."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist; crime; guns; rkba; secondammendment
This must be a fantasy article because we all know that the UK is a paradise with no evil guns.
1 posted on 01/29/2007 12:45:41 PM PST by TC Rider
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To: TC Rider
"We have some of the toughest firearm legislation in Europe."

Well, criminals aren't at risk from legally armed citizens, anyway...

2 posted on 01/29/2007 12:52:21 PM PST by GoldCountryRedneck ("Idiocy - Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers" - despair.com)
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To: TC Rider
Simple solutions:

  1. Encourage law abiding citizens to arm and pay them bounty for every perp bagged.
  2. Revive the death penalty under Scottish law for hamesucken.

3 posted on 01/29/2007 12:52:34 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: GoldCountryRedneck
"We have some of the toughest firearm legislation in Europe."

So, obviously, the answer is MORE GUN CONTROL.

4 posted on 01/29/2007 12:54:28 PM PST by Lazamataz (You are not your mind. You are not your emotions. You are not your pain. All you are is love.)
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To: TC Rider

Morons, absolute morons...........


5 posted on 01/29/2007 12:55:20 PM PST by Red Badger (Rachel Carson is responsible for more deaths than Adolf Hitler...............)
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To: TC Rider
Labour has been accused of losing control of gun crime...

That implies that government had control of it in the first place.

6 posted on 01/29/2007 12:55:37 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Lazamataz

Those crooks in the UK must be getting their guns from VA, NC and Georgia!!!

Paging Mikey Bloomberg!


7 posted on 01/29/2007 12:55:45 PM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: TC Rider
It must be a failing in the educational system. Nobody in a position of power can comprehend the simple results of gun control. A common bumper sticker sums it up nicely, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". The socialist solution will be more anti-gun laws, more government, more armed agents of the government. The correct solution is freedom. Freedom of individuals to keep and bear arms. Prosecute and incarcerate the minority of persons who would employ a firearm for other than self defense from life threatening physical assault.
8 posted on 01/29/2007 12:55:46 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: TC Rider
There was also a rapid and unexplained increase in the number of times householders were confronted in their own homes by armed criminal.>Well, gezzz, Louise! OK, Brit liberals, here in the USA there is a Internet group called Free Republic and every member can explain the hows and whys to you guys.
9 posted on 01/29/2007 12:56:02 PM PST by oyez ( My karma ran over your dogma.)
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To: TC Rider

Fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity . - Sigmund Freud

Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." (A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.) - Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD)

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants;
they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
- Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist 1764.


10 posted on 01/29/2007 12:57:13 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto")
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To: TC Rider
There was also a rapid and unexplained increase in the number of times householders were confronted in their own homes by armed criminals.

I can explain it. It's because the crooks know the householders probably aren't armed.

11 posted on 01/29/2007 12:58:20 PM PST by SamuraiScot
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To: oyez

Unfortunately, every member may not always format his posts properly.


12 posted on 01/29/2007 12:59:21 PM PST by oyez ( My karma ran over your dogma.)
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To: SamuraiScot
I can explain it. It's because the crooks know the householders probably aren't armed.

It is also a consequence of prosecuting householders for defending themselves from the perpetrators of home invasion robberies. The crooks know the householders are not armed and dare not fight back for fear of being prosecuted themselves. The inmates are running the asylum.

13 posted on 01/29/2007 1:01:53 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: TC Rider

Criminals don't comply with gun laws?? Can't be.


14 posted on 01/29/2007 1:01:53 PM PST by vetsvette (Bring Him Back)
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To: TC Rider

This is what happens when a regime seizes guns from law-abiding citizens. Only the crooks have guns. The law-abiding people can't defend themselves.
Rule #1 of survival, that all animals and humans must obey: protect your own existence. Since the liberal regime is preventing humans from saving their own existence, the liberal regime is violating a fundamental law of animal and human nature.
And I don't expect them to understand what I just said.


15 posted on 01/29/2007 1:02:26 PM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (NRA - protecting your right to stay alive)
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To: Lazamataz

Exactly. I've noticed that when liberal laws fail, as they inevitably do, liberals call for more of the same laws that failed.


16 posted on 01/29/2007 1:04:15 PM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (Liberalism - Yuck!)
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To: TC Rider
"Gun crime is mainly fuelled by gang warfare and drug addiction, which is a consequence of Labour's failing drugs policy. It is exacerbated by our porous borders, which allow illegal weapons to flow into the country."

Here's a fun exercise. How many false statements can you find in this quote?

17 posted on 01/29/2007 1:17:39 PM PST by Disambiguator
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged
Only the crooks have guns

Don't you know the liberal law makers know this? When the new gun law fails and new law will be written that forces the law abiding deeper into hiding. And the politicians will tell them how fortunate they are.

18 posted on 01/29/2007 1:33:47 PM PST by oyez ( My karma ran over your dogma.)
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To: TC Rider

So how's that banning gun thingy working out ??? Really helped reduce crime didn't it ... you bunch of friggin idiots


19 posted on 01/29/2007 1:41:53 PM PST by clamper1797 (Per caritate viduaribus orphanibusque sed prime viduaribus)
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged; All

"This is what happens when a regime seizes guns from law-abiding citizens. Only the crooks have guns. The law-abiding people can't defend themselves."

Can we get this straight? I'm not defending our gun laws (my handguns were made illegal 10 years ago), but shotguns and rifles are very much legal, albeit tightly controlled.

Just for the record.


20 posted on 01/29/2007 1:46:08 PM PST by Mac1
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To: Lazamataz
So, obviously, the answer is MORE GUN CONTROL

Absolutely correct!

21 posted on 01/29/2007 1:52:26 PM PST by magslinger (I am NOT running for President, nor have I formed an exploratory committee)
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To: TC Rider
No offense to our British participants intended, but this is one of those news stories that they swear aren't true.

This story also goes to show that the UK's Conservative party that some Freepers like to think of as the closest relative to the Republican party is no friend of liberty at all. They're essentially saying 'Labor has failed on the issue of gun control. We can do far better!'. Don't think for a minute that this means the Conservatives are going to repeal gun control legislation or allow law abiding UK citizens to defend themselves. It means that the Conservatives intend to redouble their efforts on gun control.

The party of Margaret Thatcher is long gone.

22 posted on 01/29/2007 1:53:12 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: Mac1
Noted.

Still, the point is: "The law-abiding people can't defend themselves."

For the record, I'm an Anglophile.

23 posted on 01/29/2007 2:06:23 PM PST by Max in Utah (WWBFD? "What Would Ben Franklin Do?")
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To: Mac1
Can we get this straight? I'm not defending our gun laws (my handguns were made illegal 10 years ago), but shotguns and rifles are very much legal, albeit tightly controlled.

All firearms should be tightly controlled, anything else could cause personal injury and make it hard to hit your target./s

Any infringement on the right of citizens to keep the means of self defense will tend to be expanded for the protection of the ruling elite. At a cost that citizens of England and Australia and other places are finding out.

24 posted on 01/29/2007 2:23:08 PM PST by magslinger (I am NOT running for President, nor have I formed an exploratory committee)
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To: The KG9 Kid

That's how I see it.


25 posted on 01/29/2007 2:23:22 PM PST by DB
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To: TC Rider
There was also a rapid and unexplained increase in the number of times householders were confronted in their own homes by armed criminals./I>

Unexplained only to left wing idiots, conservatives know why there was an increase in home invasions in the UK since they effectively made it against the law for home owners to defend themselves.

26 posted on 01/29/2007 2:45:40 PM PST by calex59
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To: Mac1
Can we get this straight? I'm not defending our gun laws (my handguns were made illegal 10 years ago), but shotguns and rifles are very much legal, albeit tightly controlled.

They may be legal, and very tightly controlled, but it is not legal for you to use them inself defense otherwise why would a farmer be sitting in jail for defending himself. Why did they have to change the law to allow citizens to use bats and other weapons to defend themselves? Are all these stories bogus? Are you allowed to kill a criminal invading your house?

Also explain what you mean by shotguns and long arms being "tightly controlled". What does a person have to do in the UK to own a firearm ? Once you have a shotgun or long arm where can you store it, at home? Are you actually allowed to shoot someone who breaks into your house? I know you aren't allowed, I just want to see what you say.

27 posted on 01/29/2007 2:51:28 PM PST by calex59
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To: The KG9 Kid
This story also goes to show that the UK's Conservative party that some Freepers like to think of as the closest relative to the Republican party is no friend of liberty at all.

The Reps are fair weather friends of liberty, but the best friends that liberty has. The Dems are sworn enemies of liberty.

The term GUN CRIME is an Orwellian abomination. The news papers would never use the term BLACK CRIME though it would be just as accurate. Sign of a weak press that they can not use language better.

No surprise there.

28 posted on 01/29/2007 3:32:05 PM PST by Jack Black
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To: Disambiguator
Here's a fun exercise. How many false statements can you find in this quote?

How about all of them?

29 posted on 01/29/2007 4:21:17 PM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: P8riot

Pretty much.


30 posted on 01/29/2007 4:37:31 PM PST by Disambiguator
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To: TC Rider

Maybe they can make private gun ownership extra special illegal.


31 posted on 01/29/2007 5:14:29 PM PST by DMZFrank
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To: DMZFrank

They're already putting the real criminals on 'double secret probation'.


32 posted on 01/29/2007 8:30:09 PM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: The KG9 Kid

"The party of Margaret Thatcher is long gone."

The party of MT banned semi-automatic rifles (except for 22 rimfire) after the Hungerford shootings of 1987.

The party of John Major (her Conservative successor) banned most handguns (including mine) ten years ago after the Dunblaine school shootings. I can't seem to be able to post links but you can find out about most of this on wikipedia (UK gun politics).


33 posted on 01/30/2007 11:54:54 AM PST by Mac1
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To: calex59

"Tightly controlled" means being thoroughly vetted before being granted a license to own and the arms (type, calibre & s/nos) are recorded on the license and police records. You can keep them at home provided you have some sort of steel cabinet to put them in (similar to New York I believe according to the NRA website).
If they are for hunting, you will have to prove to the police that you have a place to hunt. For sport you will have to prove club membership (you get this after a 6 month probationary period) before you can apply.


34 posted on 01/30/2007 12:17:05 PM PST by Mac1
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To: TC Rider

"Gun Crime"
The guns must have criminal minds in England.


35 posted on 01/30/2007 12:25:05 PM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: Mac1

You haven't got a friend in the world over there. Good luck and best wishes to you. It would make me insane if I had to live there. The natural beauty must be what compels you to stay.


36 posted on 01/30/2007 12:32:25 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: calex59

Further,(my email crashes if my replies go over a certain length!) regarding self defence, "reasonable force" under the circumstances may be used - i.e matched to the threat - you can use anything really, as long as you can justify it to a jury. The farmer (you are referring to Tony Martin, right?) I believe was pissed off with being burgled, advertised his valuable possessions and set up an ambush - looking for trouble - shot the burglar running away. From what I've read (Massad Ayoob "In the gravest extreme/other articles), his treatment would be mirrored in your country.


37 posted on 01/30/2007 12:36:51 PM PST by Mac1
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To: The KG9 Kid

Cheers! I hope you fiercely defend your firearm rights over there!


38 posted on 01/30/2007 12:48:04 PM PST by Mac1
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To: Mac1

I do what I can. We're losing ground here as well.


39 posted on 01/30/2007 12:51:01 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: TC Rider

"The figures come a day after two men armed with a replica gun robbed a Home Office worker on his way home after sharing a curry with Home Secretary John Reid. The 29-year-old civil servant was making his way home in Beckenham, Kent, shortly before midnight when he was attacked. "

in other news...

"And the fact that you've got "Replica" written down the side of your guns, and the fact that I've got "Desert Eagle point five O" written on the side of mine..."
(/snatch)


40 posted on 01/30/2007 12:53:02 PM PST by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
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To: magslinger

"Any infringement on the right of citizens to keep the means of self defense will tend to be expanded for the protection of the ruling elite."

Right. Give 'em an inch and they take a mile. Guard your rights with care - DON'T get complacent; speaking from experience. Ironically however, the ruling elite might actually keep gun ownership alive in my country - some of those double barrelled rifles cost the same as a new Ferrari!


41 posted on 01/30/2007 12:54:07 PM PST by Mac1
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To: Mac1
Ironically however, the ruling elite might actually keep gun ownership alive in my country - some of those double barrelled rifles cost the same as a new Ferrari!

First off, gun control does not apply to the elite themselves. One of the most rabid anti-gunners in this country has armed guards.

Secondly, that Ferrari-like price tag may in itself be an infringement. How much of the cost is in taxes and other government costs? Pricing the means of self defense out of the range of anyone is itself an infringement.

42 posted on 01/30/2007 1:02:15 PM PST by magslinger (I am NOT running for President, nor have I formed an exploratory committee)
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