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First Americans Arrived Recently, Settled Pacific Coast, DNA Study Says
National Geographic ^ | 2-2-2007 | Stefan Lovgren

Posted on 02/02/2007 4:52:13 PM PST by blam

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To: blam
only one percent of modern tribal members have genetic patterns that matched the prehistoric sample

So where did these people go and where did the modern tribes come from? They weren't related, it seems.

21 posted on 02/02/2007 7:04:06 PM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Right Wing Assault
They aren't the same people. The people we call the American Indians/Native Americans came much later. Here are some of the earlier people.

Vintage Skulls

22 posted on 02/02/2007 7:25:16 PM PST by blam
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To: Right Wing Assault
only one percent of modern tribal members have genetic patterns that matched the prehistoric sample

So where did these people go and where did the modern tribes come from? They weren't related, it seems.

The old mtDNA pattern is still there, but it has been partially or mostly swamped out by more recent or more numerous arrivals.

There were probably two or more early coastal migrations, bringing at least haplogroups D and A. Another form of D, along with B and C, seem to have come later.

The second D, along with B and C, may have come via the land bridge through central Canada. They had an adaptation which let them spread rapidly in terrestrial habitats, while the coastal dwellers had an adaptation which kept them close to the coast.

23 posted on 02/02/2007 7:26:02 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman; Right Wing Assault

The National Geographic DNA map I linked in post #10 show the following DNA groups in the Americas = A, B, C, D, M3, M217 and X.


24 posted on 02/02/2007 8:13:27 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
The National Geographic DNA map I linked in post #10 show the following DNA groups in the Americas = A, B, C, D, M3, M217 and X.

The west coast, where I work, does not have any real number of X, and haplogroup M is a quite recent discovery in British Columbia (just last year). It certainly is not yet understood.

I think the map is misleading because 1) there are two different D lineages (based on recent discoveries). One is coastal the other probably interior. And 2) the A seems to have been coastal.

The NG map, and Oppenheimer's as well, jumble them all together. But that's to be expected, as the discoveries are coming very quickly now.

25 posted on 02/02/2007 8:30:53 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
"The NG map, and Oppenheimer's as well, jumble them all together. But that's to be expected, as the discoveries are coming very quickly now."

Maybe.

I just figure these maps/publications are for the general population like me, without the finer details and not for experts like you. LOL, I work at this and I can't keep things straight. So...

26 posted on 02/02/2007 8:50:00 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
I just figure these maps/publications are for the general population like me, without the finer details and not for experts like you. LOL, I work at this and I can't keep things straight. So...

Its more that things are changing so fast that the popular websites can't keep up.

These mtDNA studies are only 10-15 years old, and the data is coming in very rapidly now. There is no way to keep up with it all, even though we all try.

27 posted on 02/02/2007 8:55:33 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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better a tooth than a pile of processed forage...

Bison Poop Reveals Two Distinct U.S. Populations
[ Holy Feces!!! ]
LiveScience | January 30, 2007 | Jeanna Bryner
Posted on 02/02/2007 12:39:53 AM EST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1777824/posts


28 posted on 02/02/2007 10:35:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Wednesday, January 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

29 posted on 02/02/2007 10:35:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Wednesday, January 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
"Bison Poop Reveals Two Distinct U.S. Populations "

Ahem, in polite company, we say coprolite. (So, it's not necessary around here)

30 posted on 02/02/2007 10:47:26 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

What about in coprolite company? ;')


31 posted on 02/02/2007 11:12:54 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Wednesday, January 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam

I hope they made *denture* this mtDNA sample wasn't contaminated, and was *molar* less pristine.


32 posted on 02/02/2007 11:15:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Wednesday, January 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam

YEC INTREP


33 posted on 02/02/2007 11:57:00 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: blam
The science isn't confusing, the conclusion is...
Either something is left out or:

"My calibration shows that the changes (mutations) were occurring two to four times faster than previously thought,"...people have overestimated the time. It wasn't so long ago." (and) previous DNA data flawed..."I hope the impact of my paper will be to bring the molecular timing more in line with the archaeological record," he says. "This is what you want your work to do."

Means that the author is bending one factor, statistical norms for mutation, in order to accomodate another, accepted interpretations of a time line.

What accounts for the 'two to four times greater' rate of mutation?

34 posted on 02/03/2007 2:30:39 AM PST by norton
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To: blam
First Americans Arrived Recently

Thisparticular Early American arrived maybe 15k years ago. They can't stanch the leakout by generalizing an admitted 15k years.

35 posted on 02/03/2007 4:57:28 AM PST by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: From many - one.; blam; SunkenCiv
From many - one. wrote: Unless I'm missing something, it seems as if this represents one group of early Americans, not necessarily the first.

And from the article fromwhich blam bolded the following sentence:

Comparing the DNA found in the tooth with that sampled from 3,500 Native Americans, researchers discovered that only one percent of modern tribal members have genetic patterns that matched the prehistoric sample.

You are not missing anything--you are correct, a point that the writer of the piece either did not understand or left out purposefully.

There were several peopling events that occurred in North and South America. This data shows one that happened 15k years ago--no more, no less.

And thanks for posting, blam, and thanks for the ping, SC.

36 posted on 02/03/2007 4:58:27 AM PST by Pharmboy ([She turned me into a] Newt! in '08)
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To: blam
coprolite is fossilized, the bison poop was merely mummified. :-)
37 posted on 02/03/2007 5:26:40 AM PST by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: xcamel

Dessicated even.


38 posted on 02/03/2007 5:42:23 AM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Wednesday, January 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Pharmboy

Thanks for the nice synopsis!


39 posted on 02/03/2007 5:42:41 AM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Wednesday, January 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam

"not enough data to be conclusive"

I think there is a lot of pressure to say something bold on every find. I've had similar feelings on recent other news releases including the Terror Bird not living alongside humans (Florida). They only showed me where that particular find of the Terror Bird did not live alongside humans. I don't think they should extrapolate that much without adding a caveat. Maybe the news publishers want the boldness of statement to make the articles more interesting and eye catching.

I read interesting or bold statement articles so I guess the idea works.


40 posted on 02/03/2007 8:17:59 AM PST by Cold Heart
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