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Vintage Skulls
Archaeology Magazine ^ | March/April 2003 | Colleen P. Popson

Posted on 02/22/2003 9:06:38 AM PST by blam

VINTAGE SKULLS

Researcher Silvia Gonzalez examines a 13,000-year-old skull. (Liverpool John Moores University)

The oldest human remains found in the Americas were recently "discovered" in the storeroom of Mexico's National Museum of Anthropology. Found in central Mexico in 1959, the five skulls were radiocarbon dated by a team of researchers from the United Kingdom and Mexico and found to be 13,000 years old. They pre-date the Clovis culture by a couple thousand years, adding to the growing evidence against the Clovis-first model for the first peopling of the Americas.

Of additional significance is the shape of the skulls, which are described as long and narrow, very unlike those of modern Native Americans.

Joseph Powell, a physical anthropologist at the University of New Mexico, cautions that other explanations for the skull shape differences must be considered before jumping to conclusions about origins. "Natural selection or some other microevolutionary forces may play a role. People change when their diets change. This happened in China, for example. Ancient Chinese don't really look much like modern Chinese from the same area. It's a worldwide phenomena and it may be related to the changes at the end of the Ice Age."

Paleoindian specialist Kenneth Tankersley believes archaeology is only beginning to scratch the surface of the debate. "Variation in the languages and DNA of American Indians not only suggests there were multiple migrations from a number of different homelands, but they imply that the first wave of people arrived in the Americas more than 30,000 years ago. This suggests archaeologists should be looking in older geological strata."

DNA evidence might be the best way to know where the first Americans came from and how or why they changed over time. The researchers have planned DNA tests, though successful extraction from remains this old is challenging.--COLLEEN P. POPSON


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: acrossatlanticice; archaeology; brucebradley; clovis; dennisstanford; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; preclovis; precolumbian; skulls; solutreans; vintage
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I expect these are of the Kennewick Man, Spirit Cave Man, Buhl Woman variety which are believed to be of Ainu/Jomon stock. (They exhibit many Caucasian features.)
1 posted on 02/22/2003 9:06:38 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

"Alas, poor Yorick...."

<|:)~

2 posted on 02/22/2003 9:11:52 AM PST by martin_fierro (oh, did I say that out loud?)
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To: blam
Oldest Human Remains in North America Found

In 1959, the partial skeletal remains of an ancient woman estimated to be 10,000 years old were unearthed in Arlington Springs on Santa Rosa Island, one of the eight Channel Islands off the southern California coast. They were discovered by Phil C. Orr, curator of anthropology and natural history at the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History. The remains of the so-called Arlington Springs woman were recently reanalyzed by the latest radiocarbon dating techniques and were found to be approximately 13,000 years old. The new date makes her remains older than any other known human skeleton found so far in North America.

The discovery challenges the popular belief that the first colonists to North America arrived at the end of the last ice age about 11,500 years ago by crossing a Bering land bridge that connected Siberia to Alaska and northwestern Canada. The earlier date and the location of the woman's remains on the island adds weight to an alternative theory that some early settlers may have constructed boats and migrated from Asia by sailing down the Pacific coast.(Just because they came from Asia does not mean that they were Orientals)

The Arlington Springs woman lived during the end of the Pleistocene era when large herds of bison and woolly mammoths roamed the grassy plains and other extinct native American animals such as camels, horses, and saber-toothed cats were still around.

The remains of Pleistocene-era animals have been discovered on Santa Rosa Island where the Arlington Springs woman was found. In 1994, the world's most complete skeleton of a pygmy mammoth, a dwarf species, was also excavated here.

3 posted on 02/22/2003 9:13:04 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
What?
No 'millions of years'?

Dr. Usher ... calling Dr. Usher .....

4 posted on 02/22/2003 9:13:44 AM PST by knarf
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To: blam
Yeah, Carbon14 dating is so accurate. Archeology, what a load.
5 posted on 02/22/2003 9:18:27 AM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker
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To: knarf
Calico: A 200,000-Year Old Site In The Americas?
6 posted on 02/22/2003 9:18:52 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Bump
7 posted on 02/22/2003 9:20:20 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
Archeology, what a load.

Mormon?

8 posted on 02/22/2003 9:20:35 AM PST by Stultis
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To: knarf
"Dr. Usher ... calling Dr. Usher ....."

You mean Bishop Usser who dated the world at 4004 years old?

9 posted on 02/22/2003 9:21:29 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
I would be interesting if it it turns out that the Indians did a more thorough job of wiping out their white predecessors than a second wave of white migrants did to the Indians.

Many Indians don't much like the term "native American" anyway.
10 posted on 02/22/2003 9:22:18 AM PST by Cicero
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To: blam
You mean Bishop Usser who dated the world at 4004 years old?

Not exactly. I believed he dated the Creation to 4004 BC, which would make the world a little over 6000 years old.

11 posted on 02/22/2003 9:27:33 AM PST by Restorer (TANSTAAFL)
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To: blam
You mean Bishop Usser who dated the world at 4004 years old?

Not exactly. I believed he dated the Creation to 4004 BC, which would make the world a little over 6000 years old.

12 posted on 02/22/2003 9:27:35 AM PST by Restorer (TANSTAAFL)
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To: blam
Skull shape can be modified to suit whatever is considered desirable. My older brother married a Korean woman, and he told me about when they had their first baby he saw her pick the kid up and with one hand on the forehead and the other hand at the back of the skull, start to press, to start the process of shaping his head. I understand this is still done in Oriental countries. And with a baby's soft bones being so malleable, I am sure the shaping could go the other way if the parents thought long and narrow was desirable.

Skull shape might not indicate so much about genetics.
13 posted on 02/22/2003 9:30:13 AM PST by Aarchaeus
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To: blam
Sorta rminds me of my mother-in-law.
14 posted on 02/22/2003 9:31:39 AM PST by sandydipper
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To: blam; All
How could this possibly be? I just read on a Free Republic thread just last week that the oldest signs found in the Americas was 6,000 years old. Now you know that FReepers could not possibly make a mistake! Especially a 7000 year one. <>>>>(;^)
15 posted on 02/22/2003 9:32:19 AM PST by fish hawk
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To: martin_fierro
Me(ow)mento Mori


16 posted on 02/22/2003 9:32:41 AM PST by SarahW
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To: Restorer
"Not exactly. I believed he dated the Creation to 4004 BC, which would make the world a little over 6000 years old."

You are correct. I couldn't remember if it was 'BC' or not. I had expected to be 'called' on the date regardless. Thanks.

17 posted on 02/22/2003 9:54:53 AM PST by blam
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To: Cicero
Okay. I confess. We came and they threw spears at us and we threw them back. Our aim just happened to be a little better.

Sorry. Now can you just get over it? It was 10,000 years ago.

Many Indians don't much like the term "native American" anyway.

American is just fine. Wyandot if you want to be specific.

18 posted on 02/22/2003 9:56:22 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Sometimes "peace" is another word for surrender.)
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To: blam
I want an Indian Number; I want a casino; and I want my college paid for. Oh, and I want one of those cool drums with the feather tied to the side.
19 posted on 02/22/2003 9:59:30 AM PST by Porterville
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To: Dog Gone; albee; Cool Guy; CobaltBlue; Clara Lou; Boomer Geezer; FreetheSouth!; ruoflaw; ...
Ping. (Get over here and bump this article!)
20 posted on 02/22/2003 11:36:00 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
BTTT
21 posted on 02/22/2003 11:59:53 AM PST by cibco (Xin Loi... Iraq)
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To: blam
A bump reading? Sure, why not some phrenology on the weekend.

I never heard of Ainu, but from the images posted they appear to be Persian. This is somewhat odd to me since Persians look like the Flemish, which is my heritage. Pictures of Iranian leaders look a lot like pictures in my family album, and that is doubly odd since my family originally emigrated from the moors of England to Massachusetts a long time ago after presumably emigrating from Flanders to England.

What does it mean? Not much except that humans were migrating all over the planet long before written records became common. 13,000 years? Current events to old goats.

22 posted on 02/22/2003 12:02:40 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: blam
Interesting stuff. Clovis Man has pretty much lost his claim to being here first.

Maybe we need to evict the Indians from their reservations as squatters.

23 posted on 02/22/2003 12:23:58 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: blam
bump
24 posted on 02/22/2003 12:39:39 PM PST by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: blam
DNA tests on these skulls would help solve the mystery.

Were these people ancestors of the Indians, or were they replaced by them? Maybe they went extinct from some other cause before the Indians ever arrived. Remember that just about every large ground-living mammal in the Americas suddenly died out either just before or just as the Clovis culture people arrived. Did whatever wiped out those animals wipe out the pre-indian inhabitants of the Americas? Did it wipe out the people who once lived in China, which one poster pointed out "did not look like the Chineses today"?

Something happened to those animals. Some thing it was man, but much of mankind seems to have been a victim of something as well. Populations get replaced by their modern counterparts at this time.
25 posted on 02/22/2003 12:42:23 PM PST by Ahban
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To: Dog Gone
Ainu

There are about 10k Ainu still living on the Japanese island of Hokkaido

Also, I haven't read it elsewhere but Dr Scoch said that the Olmec sites in Mexico contain "cord" type pottery which is distinct to the Jomon of prehistory Japan.

26 posted on 02/22/2003 12:45:11 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Jomon Project

Describes the distinctive Jomon cord pottery.

27 posted on 02/22/2003 12:52:41 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
This suggests archaeologists should be looking in older geological strata."

Seems like a lot of folks, including quite a few here, have been saying that for a long time. It's hard to shake up the Establishment.

28 posted on 02/22/2003 12:58:28 PM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: RightWhale

An Ainu Man (Related to Kennewick Man)

29 posted on 02/22/2003 1:05:35 PM PST by blam
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To: Bernard Marx
"Seems like a lot of folks, including quite a few here, have been saying that for a long time. It's hard to shake up the Establishment."

Yup. That's what happened at either the Cactus Hill or Topper site, they got to the Clovis level and stopped. After the word from Monte Verde,35,000 year old artifacts, they went back and dug some more and found artifacts older than Clovis.

30 posted on 02/22/2003 1:13:40 PM PST by blam
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To: Eastbound
See my comment in post #26. It relates to the other thread we've been commenting on.
31 posted on 02/22/2003 1:47:53 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Ainu? Wonder if this is a contraction or form of 'Anu?' Anu, head of the ancient pantheon, was the grandfather of Nin.Gish.Zida, who also was known by different names by different cultures as 'Thoth,' and more recently as 'Quetzlcoatl' in Meso-America -- the Pyramid Builder. Were the Ainu another group of Mesopotamian survivors migrating to India, Russia and Asia? Is the world getting smaller and the history books thicker, or what?
32 posted on 02/22/2003 2:28:05 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: blam
BUMP!!!
33 posted on 02/22/2003 3:01:02 PM PST by manna
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To: blam
That picture you posted looks just like a deceased friend of mine, beard and all. He was of French descent.
34 posted on 02/22/2003 3:33:49 PM PST by JudyB1938 (It's a wild world. There's a lot of bad and beware.)
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To: Eastbound
"Were the Ainu another group of Mesopotamian survivors migrating to India, Russia and Asia? "

I believe there have been numerous waves of Proto-Europeans across the Russian/Asian steppes like the Ainu, Jomon and most recently these: The Takla Makan Mummies.

I believe some of these early waves made it across the 'top' and we're finding them now as Kennewick Man, Spirit Cave Man and etc.

I'm beginning to think there was a time when there were more proto-Europeans in Asian than there were Asians.(as we know them today.)

There's an excellent book by Victor Mair about these mummies titled: The Tarim Mummies. I believe the Tarim Mummies are refugees from the Black Sea flood in 5,600BC.

35 posted on 02/22/2003 4:18:16 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Nice pictue of Heidi's grandfather!!!
36 posted on 02/22/2003 4:25:00 PM PST by fish hawk
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To: fish hawk
"Nice pictue of Heidi's grandfather!!!"

Tell me!

That picture was taken from the Ainu Museum site.

37 posted on 02/22/2003 4:29:35 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Geeky hat. Otherwise looks like my great grandfather.
38 posted on 02/22/2003 6:59:47 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: 4mer Liberal
Hamlet ping :-)
39 posted on 02/22/2003 7:03:58 PM PST by T Minus Four
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To: blam
bump
40 posted on 02/22/2003 7:08:41 PM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: blam
Bishop Usher said that the universe was created on October 23, 4004 BC, at 9:00 o'clock in the morning (London time).

I have no idea whether he was joking.
41 posted on 02/22/2003 7:43:21 PM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
I just learned that to be ultra PC, the term isn't Native American, it's First Nation.
42 posted on 02/22/2003 7:50:15 PM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: CobaltBlue
"I have no idea whether he was joking."

He was very serious.

Bishop Ussher (1581-1656)

43 posted on 02/22/2003 8:00:15 PM PST by blam
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To: CobaltBlue
BTW, he dates Noah's Flood at 2354BC.
44 posted on 02/22/2003 8:02:24 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
bump
45 posted on 02/22/2003 9:28:00 PM PST by Bohemund
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To: blam
Bumpity bump bump! Thanks for the hollar.
46 posted on 02/23/2003 8:50:36 AM PST by Marie (Tricare doesn't give a crap about military children.)
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To: Stultis
Mormon?

Are you asking whether I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

47 posted on 02/23/2003 8:24:55 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker
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To: Cicero
Too bad for your little fantasy, there was NO "White" first wave. Craniometric studies on PaleoIndian remains have ONLY shown affinities to Asian, Pacific, & Native American populations. DNA studies on PaleoIndians matches them to modern Native Americans. DNA (& linguistic) studies on modern Native Americans say they've been here 20-40,000 yrs. Try reading scientific journal articles on the subject (special attention to Powell & Neves' "Cranifacial Morphology of the First Americans" which proved that prior & highly disputed claims of "Caucasoid" PaleoIndians were due entirely to suspiciously consistant OBSERVER ERROR on the part of a small handfull of White scientists, or the Powell & Neves study on Kennewick Man which conclusively found he was NOT Caucasoid, let alone Caucasian). BTW, if you're thinking of Ainu.... think again, they SOLIDLY match Asians in DNA & linguistic studies. SOME craniometric studies purport minor Caucasian affinities, but ALSO match them just as close to Melanesians & Polyesians & Australian Aborigines.
48 posted on 09/22/2003 8:38:43 PM PDT by Americas
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To: farmfriend
Please put in the GGG files, thanks.
49 posted on 11/23/2003 9:40:40 AM PST by blam
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To: blam; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; Alas Babylon!; Andyman; annyokie; bd476; BiffWondercat; ...
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

50 posted on 11/23/2003 9:41:48 AM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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