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Ruby Ridge...documentary films?
Me

Posted on 03/20/2007 5:48:06 PM PDT by Chasaway

Good evening, Freepers.

I just watched a documentary on the Ruby Ridge/Randy Weaver fiasco with my family. I'd like to get some recommendations from you folks on some other good documentary films about it.

My kids are too young to remember any of this (or actually even be AROUND for it) and I want to put some of this kind of stuff in perspective for them.

A year or so ago, we did the whole Waco/Rules of Engagement route to try to get our arms around that whole thing. And then when we watched this little hour-long thing about Ruby Ridge tonight, it made my son get out his guns and start cleaning them. (Had kind of a crazy look in his eye, too. And he's generally a pretty calm kid.)

It may sound a bit like I'm trying to indoctrinate, but I'm really not. I just want my kids to know what the government can do and what it can be like. They've already seen the "nanny-state" side of the government. I want them to understand the flip side, too.

So...all that being said, I'm looking for documentaries or films that tell the story pretty well. We'll probably watch the movie with Randy Quaid as Weaver (although I really didn't like that one when I saw it the first time), but I'd like some really good documentaries that you've seen and appreciate/respect.

Any help or ideas would be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

C


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; randyweaver; rubyridge

1 posted on 03/20/2007 5:48:07 PM PDT by Chasaway
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To: Admin Moderator

I think I "oopsed" on this. It's supposed to just be a vanity post. If it needs to be moved, would you do so?

Thanks.

C


2 posted on 03/20/2007 5:49:59 PM PDT by Chasaway (Anything not worth doing is not worth doing well.)
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To: Chasaway

Waco: The Big Lie is fantastic.

Death and Taxes, which is about Gordon Kahl, has good info but is rambling and incoherent.


3 posted on 03/20/2007 5:56:44 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Chasaway
Did you see this?
4 posted on 03/20/2007 6:03:33 PM PDT by labette (To hit the ball and touch 'em all. A moment in the sun.)
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To: Chasaway; amchugh

pinging myself to check back on this thread later.


5 posted on 03/20/2007 6:10:11 PM PDT by amchugh
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To: labette

Actually, yes. I was following that thread for most of its existence.

Admittedly, I was puzzled by many of the comments that seemed to take Weaver's oddities - whether religious or social - and make them license for an almost unbelievable (literally!) overreaction by law enforcement. I understand that he acted and talked WAY out the mainstream (as did the folks at Waco), and that he was so "rural" that folks in the big city might see him as dangerous, and that he was so far removed geographically that they might see "good riddance" as a real, "okay" response to what happened.

However, I don't agree. I don't share his beliefs and he could have made some different decisions. But he didn't shoot his son, his wife and his friend. To lay the blame on him solely, or even largely, is mistaken, IMHO.

Long answer to your short question, huh? Yes, I was following the thread the other day, and then I saw the show was on tonite. After watching it with my kids, I realized they might need a little more on the subject.

Thanks,

C


6 posted on 03/20/2007 6:21:36 PM PDT by Chasaway (Anything not worth doing is not worth doing well.)
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To: Chasaway

Agreed!


7 posted on 03/20/2007 6:29:28 PM PDT by labette (To hit the ball and touch 'em all. A moment in the sun.)
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To: Chasaway

Randy Weaver said the government was out to get him so he moved his family into the woods, lowered his profile and they still found him. Guess he was right.


8 posted on 03/20/2007 6:54:41 PM PDT by Eagles6 (Dig deeper, more ammo.)
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To: Chasaway

Weaver wrote a book on teh subject that you should be able to track down.

Also, Unintended Consequences has an extensive factual account of the event, with a firearms perspective. (The whole book is excellent, but contains some lurid sections that are inappropriate for children.)


9 posted on 03/20/2007 6:59:03 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Beelzebubba
All of this started because of one quarter inch. Randy is alleged to have sold a sawed off shotgun to an undercover fed that had a barrel that was one fourth inch too short. For that one quarter inch they shot his teenage son in the back and his wife in the head.
I have heard and read how the sniper who shot Randy's wife was shooting at another target. I do not believe this was true. I think the shooter was a highly trained marksman and hit exactly what he was shooting at. For a person with this amount of training not to see what is behind his intended target is beyond any standard of credibility. It is hard to prove what anyone intended or didn't intend to do. All we have to go on is the word of the man who shot an unarmed woman in the head while she was holding her child in her arms breastfeeding. I think he would say anything to cover his butt.
10 posted on 03/20/2007 7:29:56 PM PDT by oldenuff2no
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To: Chasaway
Here's a case very much like Ruby Ridge or Waco, but far more obscure since it broke just days before 9/11, and got buried in the media.
11 posted on 03/20/2007 7:40:09 PM PDT by TFFKAMM
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To: Chasaway

You may also want to look into the past of the current Governor of Massachusetts, if you have not already.


12 posted on 03/20/2007 7:49:09 PM PDT by happinesswithoutpeace (You are receiving this broadcast as a dream)
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To: oldenuff2no
Randy is alleged to have sold a sawed off shotgun to an undercover fed that had a barrel that was one fourth inch too short.

Should point out that he was paid by the FBI to cut that 1/4 inch off.

13 posted on 03/20/2007 8:46:52 PM PDT by org.whodat (Never let the facts get in the way of a good assumption.)
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Weaver was an idiot............and his wife didn't help the situation. That's my take.

It all could have been avoided. Don't blame anything on the Government. Weirdos in the woods need to be polite to Authorities, too.

14 posted on 03/20/2007 10:03:45 PM PDT by TheBridge
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To: org.whodat
Weaver blew it.
That's what happened.
15 posted on 03/20/2007 10:04:44 PM PDT by TheBridge
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To: Chasaway

FYI:

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b6a7a881ed0.htm
Return to Ruby Ridge-- SNAFU? Or Summary Execution?
Published: 08-03-01 Author: backhoe


16 posted on 03/21/2007 3:59:36 AM PDT by backhoe (Just a Merry-Hearted Keyboard PirateBoy, plunderin’ his way across the WWW…)
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To: backhoe

Excellent...

Thanks.

C


17 posted on 03/21/2007 4:02:01 AM PDT by Chasaway (Anything not worth doing is not worth doing well.)
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To: Chasaway

18 posted on 03/21/2007 4:08:30 AM PDT by backhoe (Just a Merry-Hearted Keyboard PirateBoy, plunderin? his way across the WWW?)
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To: TheBridge
Weirdos in the woods need to be polite to Authorities, too.



ya ... being rude to a leo is a death penalty offense.

I'm usually polite on this forum , but your a trolling idiot.
19 posted on 03/21/2007 4:30:30 AM PDT by THEUPMAN (####### comment deleted by moderator)
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To: THEUPMAN

He's being sarcastic.


20 posted on 03/21/2007 4:34:23 AM PDT by DainBramage
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To: TheBridge
Weaver blew it. That's what happened.

So we gun people down after the FBI pays them to break the law. You are a complete idiot. There is nothing in the constitution that requires anyone to be polite to anyone, actually it calls for the opposite. Point me to the so called authorities you are talking of.

21 posted on 03/21/2007 5:37:57 AM PDT by org.whodat (Never let the facts get in the way of a good assumption.)
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To: TheBridge

You're the F'in idiot Adolph.


22 posted on 03/21/2007 6:10:57 AM PDT by ohioman
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To: oldenuff2no

All of this started because of one quarter inch. Randy is alleged to have sold a sawed off shotgun to an undercover fed that had a barrel that was one fourth inch too short. For that one quarter inch they shot his teenage son in the back and his wife in the head.



Actually, the barrel was of legal length. He was alleged to have shortened the butt of the stock to bring the overall length below the lesser-known but still 10-years-in-jail limitation of 26 inches.

A quarter inch of wood, and he could have done so legally if he had paid a $5 (not $200) tax to manufacture an "any other weapon" (AOW - non-pistol non-long gun).

And I understand that it was a fed informant/scheme that asked him to cut it down.


23 posted on 03/21/2007 7:34:27 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: TheBridge
Weirdos in the woods need to be polite to Authorities, too.


Spoken like a Rudy supporter who joined FR in the last few months!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1802194/posts?page=202#202

TheBridge
Since Jan 8, 2007
24 posted on 03/21/2007 7:37:41 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: DainBramage
He's being sarcastic.


If thats the case then of course my comment is misplaced ....
But I have heard that sort of drivel from enough people to know that some folks really don't have a clue.
25 posted on 03/21/2007 11:51:58 AM PDT by THEUPMAN (####### comment deleted by moderator)
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To: TFFKAMM

Thanks for the link to that story. That guy would be much less likely to receive public sympathy since he was big into pot and hippies. However unsavory I find him to be, he didn't deserve what the government dished out to him. I probably would've done the same desperate thing he did in that situation.


26 posted on 03/21/2007 5:17:35 PM PDT by Firefigher NC
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To: Firefigher NC
"First they came for the gay hippie pothead rednecks, and since I wasn't one..." :-)

I'm not a fan of Koresh or Weaver myself, nor of Philadelphia's Black-separatist MOVE, who were literally bombed out of their urban settlement by the city police. But government-sanctioned murders of citizens is always wrong, even if said citizens' sensibilities don't mesh with ours.

If you, or other Freepers, are interested in the Crosslin/Rohm case, check out Dean Kuipers' BURNING RAINBOW FARM. One of the interesting things about that story, to me, is how Rainbow Farm cross-pollinated the hippie Left, the libertarian Right, stoners, good ol' boys, Christians, gays, and all sorts of other seemingly disparate elements.

27 posted on 03/21/2007 6:04:39 PM PDT by TFFKAMM
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To: TFFKAMM

It is an interesting case. I read the wikipedia link about the MOVE group and how the city police took care of them. I think the subject of government heavy-handed tactics is fascinating and a bit scary.


28 posted on 03/21/2007 6:22:05 PM PDT by Firefigher NC
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To: Chasaway

I'll be bookmarking this one.


29 posted on 03/21/2007 6:25:33 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (If you're not being shot at, it's not a high stress job.)
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To: THEUPMAN
Oh yeah...but I noticed you have the clue. Just the level of discourse is something to behold.

"Your a troll idiot"...Your the f'n idiot adolph".

You know... you lose any argument when you start doing that, at least with those of average intelligence and above.

30 posted on 03/21/2007 6:44:10 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: Chasaway
RE: "[Weaver] was so "rural" that folks in the big city might see him as dangerous, and that he was so far removed geographically that they might see "good riddance" as a real, "okay" response to what happened."

Good observation -- and that makes the events of Ruby Ridge relevant to today. As long as there are Americans who exercise their inalienable rights to be different offending only the "sensibilities" of the meddlesome Ruby Ridge will likely recur.

31 posted on 03/21/2007 8:41:36 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: DainBramage
you lose any argument when you start doing that


I wasn't arguing with him , I was simply stating a fact .
I usually don't engage idiots around here.
I don't like to encourage them.
But I just couldn't hold my tongue on that one.
People who really hold that sort of opinion are immune from logic and reason , so insulting them really doesn't hurt.

It's sort of like shooting a bird at a blind guy ... pointless , but if it makes you fell better .. whats the harm.
32 posted on 03/22/2007 1:13:57 AM PDT by THEUPMAN (####### comment deleted by moderator)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
No one saw him as dangerous till he joined a group of extremists that preached hatred and the overthrow of the US government.

He then agreed to saw off shotguns for money from whom he thought was an Aryan Nation biker, who was going to sell them to black gangs in the city.

If he had have joined AlQuieda and had have done the same thing you wouldnt be peacocking him as being such an angel.

33 posted on 03/22/2007 3:57:08 AM PDT by DainBramage
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To: DainBramage
You've listed valid reasons to ostracize Mr. and Mrs. Weaver.

However that's not exactly what I remember. I will look for the Congressional hearings' conclusions.

For the past few years anyway I've wanted to learn if I remember correctly that one of the federal agents stated at one of the televised hearings that they have the authority to kill citizens based soley upon the belief that the citizen would present a danger at sometime in the future; i.e., a threat did not have to be imminent.

I have always believed that truth is more important than my ego.

34 posted on 03/22/2007 10:45:17 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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