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The Coulter Hoax: How Ann Coulter Exposed the Intelligent Design Movement
Talk Reason (from Skeptical Inquirer) ^ | March 14, 2007 | Peter Olofsson

Posted on 03/31/2007 1:48:09 PM PDT by EveningStar

In the summer of 2006, I heard that a new book called Godless presented an insightful and devastating criticism of the theory of evolution. Although I learned that its author, Ann Coulter, is not a scientist but a lawyer turned author and TV pundit, she nevertheless appeared to be an intelligent and well-educated person, so I started reading. At first I was puzzled. There did not seem to be anything new; only tired and outdated antievolution arguments involving moths, finches, and fruit flies. But it wasn't until Coulter dusted off the old Piltdown man story that I suddenly realized: it was a hoax! And it was brilliant...

(Excerpt) Read more at talkreason.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anncoulter; antifreepers; antiscience; coulter; creation; creationism; creationistwhinefest; cutnpaste; evolution; evolutionism; fsmdidit; hogwash; idjunkscience; intelligentdesign; skankybitch; textdump
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To: AndrewC

Oh, please, you are the one who digs himself deeper and deeper into a hole...its quite amusing to watch...keep talking lets see how far down you can go...


361 posted on 04/01/2007 5:36:39 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: RipSawyer
I cannot imagine such a God but the old testament God seemed to approve of a lot of behaviour that I cannot imagine approving.

When Moses took the Jews out of Egypt to escape the growing oppression, he gave the Jews the Torah, the core of the Old Testament. Sure, the penalties for crimes were sever. So what. It was a code by the Jews for the Jews. So they muscled in on some inhabitants in the Promised Land. So what. That is the human way. Hordes have swept through Asia, Europe, and the Americas from the beginning of history.

The Jews (and their God) had no intention of world conquest. Their religion is peculiar to themselves in a tiny little place, Israel. Now comes Christ to spread the truth as a Universal truth, albeit through persuasion by peaceful reason. And, now comes the cutthroat Mohammad brandishing the sword to forcefully convert the world to his Allah.

For you to find equivalence in the God of the Jews with that of Mohammad's numbs me.

362 posted on 04/01/2007 5:45:04 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The only good Mullah is a dead Mullah. The only good Mosque is the one that used to be there.)
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To: K4Harty
Here is a link to an article on radiometric dating:

Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective, by Dr. Roger C. Wiens.

This is not an area I know well, but the article appears to be well-reasoned and I have no cause to mistrust it.

You should be able to find other articles from a google search, but use caution. The creationist sites seem to be outnumbering the science sites for most forms of dating I have searched.

363 posted on 04/01/2007 5:45:29 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Gene Eric
The 'studity' and Talibanism you point to is unkind, unwarranted, and not something one can prove.

The bit of Coulter that I quoted claimed that Gould and Eldredge's "Punctuated Equilibrium" entails that evolution can happened really fast and then "stop happening at all for 150 million years"!

I'm sorry, but that simply IS stupid, by any measure.

The punctuationists posited that most evolution occurs in association with speciation events. Punctuationists note that the average species (which is long-lived, widely distributed and numerous enough to be represented in the fossil record in the first place) survives, I forget exactly, but something like 2 million years.

Even if you take the most extreme, dogmatic, simplistic or stereotypical version of punc eq -- for instance ignoring the fact that the vast majority of evolutionists think that both punctuated and gradual patterns of change occur and can be found in the fossil record, and that even punctuationists admit that some evolution occurs between speciation events -- you still can't get anything like "150 million years" of evolution "stopping" out of the theory.

Coulter's depiction gets even stupider if you continue the quote:

Basically, what happens is this: Your parents are slugs and then suddenly--but totally at random--you evolve into a gecko and your brother evolves into a shark and your sister evolves into a polar bear and the guy down the street evolves into a porpoise and so on--and then everybody relaxes by the pool for 150 million years, virtually unchanged.

My comparing Coulter to Rosie O'Donnel was actually restrained. Even Rosie has yet to say anything quite this stupid.

As to the Taliban comment, it was not mine and I noted that I thought it over the top. I just thought it was funny/ironic that another Freeper responded to it with Talibanesque rhetoric. Not to mention in a manner that denied central Christian doctrine (e.g. treating beliefs about evolution as a salvational matter).

364 posted on 04/01/2007 6:09:22 PM PDT by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: andysandmikesmom
Oh, please, you are the one who digs himself deeper and deeper into a hole...its quite amusing to watch...keep talking lets see how far down you can go...

You keep digging.

365 posted on 04/01/2007 6:10:30 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC

All I did was agree with your own remark...which was...

"And that observation and a buck will get you a cup of coffee at McDonald's, at least for the short term."..

That was your comment about your own observation, your own opinion...and I merely agreed with that...

So you get upset when someone agrees with you?...


366 posted on 04/01/2007 6:20:26 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: andysandmikesmom
All I did was agree with your own remark...which was...

Keep digging.

367 posted on 04/01/2007 6:39:47 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: RadioAstronomer
Thanks RA. I enjoy civil discourse. ;o)
368 posted on 04/01/2007 6:46:51 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I buy gas for my Hummer with the Carbon Offsets I sell on Ebay!)
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To: Nathan Zachary
Another little problem with your unattributed cut and paste:

Evolutionary theories for the origin of the Moon are highly speculative and completely inadequate.

You do realize that the theories for the origin for the moon are not a part of the theory of evolution, don't you? The theory of evolution deals with change in genomes of living critters. Don't you even read the passages you cut and paste?

But I can figure out how you mistook the two. "Evolutionist" and "Darwinist" are terms used by creationists to include all scientists who disagree with them.

369 posted on 04/01/2007 6:52:27 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
Thanks, again, for the link. I have worn out the google searches and I am not searching college databases, the lists are endless but it allows me to see some of the more current studies. It is also easier to find rebuttals to them with google to see the broader picture. I believe I've read most of the Creationist/ID sites, and check back frequently, but again, even though I believe in the ID model generally there are still MAJOR gaps that need to be filled, but that goes both ways.The only way to see the whole picture is to keep as many tabs on everyone involved.

My quest it to keep seeking and enjoy the journey.

370 posted on 04/01/2007 6:53:20 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I buy gas for my Hummer with the Carbon Offsets I sell on Ebay!)
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To: Coyoteman

What is the error factor(for lack of a better term) in radiocarbon dating? Does it depend on the age of the material? Qaulity of the material?


371 posted on 04/01/2007 6:58:32 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: AndrewC

Sure, I am enjoying this...


372 posted on 04/01/2007 6:59:13 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: K4Harty
My quest it to keep seeking and enjoy the journey.

Mine too! I have found that most scientists live for the increases in knowledge that they hope to produce.

(Some of the greatest discoveries have come not from "Eureka!" but from "Hmmmmm. That's funny!")

373 posted on 04/01/2007 6:59:41 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
Good point. History is filled with instances of "lay-persons" with a passion to tinker developing great things. Juxtapose that onto those true scientists in all fields that seek to produce questions and answers simultaneously, not start with an answer and then develop the questions.

That last part is what irks the H-E-double hocky sticks out of me.

Also, the archaeologist(?) I was thinking of has a hyphenated last name and she was working along with U of AZ down in Mexico. I think her name was Steen or something. She caused quite a stir and a controversy with some dating she did in the 70's and I want to delve into it further. If any of that jogs your brain and you have a link send it. (I've read the articles on the ID/Creation sites and want to see more of why her methods were crucified) I'm sure there are some papers out there waiting for me to find them.

374 posted on 04/01/2007 7:06:59 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I buy gas for my Hummer with the Carbon Offsets I sell on Ebay!)
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To: Scotsman will be Free
What is the error factor(for lack of a better term) in radiocarbon dating? Does it depend on the age of the material? Qaulity of the material?

Radiocarbon dates come in two parts, a measured (or conventional) age, and a range. The range is usually expressed as plus or minus two sigma. That is a statistical measure of the accuracy of an age measurement at about 95%. (One sigma would be about 67%.)

Calibrated ages are generally expressed as a calendrical range, such as AD 1350-1550. This represents two sigma on either side of the intercept.

The math is complicated, and this is a simplified explanation, but no radiocarbon date should ever be expressed as a fixed date (such as AD 1450), but rather as a range at two sigma (such as AD 1350-1550).

Hope this helps. Here are a bunch of links for more details:

ReligiousTolerance.org Carbon-14 Dating (C-14): Beliefs of New-Earth Creationists

Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective by Dr. Roger C. Wiens.

This site, BiblicalChronologist.org has a series of good articles on radiocarbon dating.

Tree Ring and C14 Dating

Radiocarbon WEB-info Radiocarbon Laboratory, University of Waikato, New Zealand.

Radiocarbon -- full text of issues, 1959-2003.


375 posted on 04/01/2007 7:09:47 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: andysandmikesmom
Sure, I am enjoying this...

Well, you are rather easy to amuse for a reason, but you still are "on your way to China". Keep digging.

376 posted on 04/01/2007 7:18:55 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: RadioAstronomer

Go read God in American by Newt Gingrich or I could name you about six other books about Americas Christian beginnings. I've run into you before on these threads (like almost all of them) and you are one of the wooden heads that has your mind already made up and history is not about to change that. There is about 5 of you hard line Evolutionist that hit every thread with the same old blah blah blah and send me pages of what "theory" means which is a waste of my time as I and every one else knows that "theory" is not fact nor is it even science. It is faith, the same thing you put Christians down for. A soul is a terrible thing to waste!


377 posted on 04/01/2007 7:24:46 PM PDT by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: RadioAstronomer
Gravity can be proved , and scientifically proved, so how in that tiny brain of yours does that make it a "theory". Evolution is the theory. I get the feeling I'm going to regret asking you this question. Go ahead and send me your BS.
378 posted on 04/01/2007 7:28:19 PM PDT by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: K4Harty
Also, the archaeologist(?) I was thinking of has a hyphenated last name and she was working along with U of AZ down in Mexico. I think her name was Steen or something. She caused quite a stir and a controversy with some dating she did in the 70's and I want to delve into it further. If any of that jogs your brain and you have a link send it. (I've read the articles on the ID/Creation sites and want to see more of why her methods were crucified) I'm sure there are some papers out there waiting for me to find them.

The archaeologist you are thinking of is Virginia Steen-Mcintyre. Try a google search.

I did a search and found this article: Hueyatlaco Site--"Extreme Dating Controversy".

Some of this does not sound right to me. The first archaeologist at the site, Cynthia Williams, is someone I knew some decades back. She struck me as entirely reliable.

Also, a site in the Americas would normally be dated using radiocarbon dating, and that has an upper limit of about 50,000 years. What method of dating produced dates several times this age? And why was that method used instead of the normal method?

There are a lot of questions I would have, but at least, from the clues you provided, I have found the name you were looking for and possibly the site. The rest is left as an exercise for the student! ;-)

379 posted on 04/01/2007 7:31:28 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: AndrewC

Sure....yes, I am easily amused.....


380 posted on 04/01/2007 7:32:49 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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