AR15 rifles move into hunting mainstream

Free Republic original publication | April 28, 2007 | Rob Berg

[reginhild]

Recently we had the Jim Zumbo incident as a new fact of life in our internet connected culture. The rifle that was involved in his article was the AR15 and the opinion that got Jim laid off was that they are not hunting rifles.

Jim Zumbo was testing an artillery round by the old cartoon method of hitting it on the head with a hammer. What he did not know is that the common military caliber 5.56 or .223 in AR15 had been fully adopted by varmint hunters. Additionally, in the last 6 years, multiple alternative calibers for the AR15 have been popping up. These alternative calibers are being used for every type of game from the smallest to the largest. Hunters accepted the new .50 Beowulf cartridge (similar to the .500 S&W) designed for the AR15 as a capable big game round that has also found favor in wild pig hunting. Deer and other medium game hunters have found the AR15 to be and excellent light weight semi-automatic rifle for stalking when used with the right caliber such as the 6.5 Grendel or the 6.8 SPC.

There was an undercurrent of growing acceptance and use of the AR15 as more than a varmint hunting or survival rifle. The expansion of calibers and wildly popular demand was missed by a few of the older generation such as Jim.

Unfortunately, some have been suckered in by the inappropriate labeling as an "Assault Weapon" by the 1994 ban (now expired). The term "Assault Weapon" as used by the military refers to everything from flamethrowers to shoulder fired wall breaching rounds - all used to aid in an assault. Assault rifles used by the military are capable of full automatic or burst fire to lay down enough fire to aid in an assault. Applying the term "Assault" to a semi-automatic weapon which does not have a rate of fire needed to aid in an assault is inappropriate and non-descriptive. By giving certain semi-automatic weapons this label many were confused and thought that they were military fully automatic weapons. The stigma stuck and individuals such as Jim thought of the semi-automatic rifles as inappropriate compared to their counterparts without a pistol grip.

With the current rate of acceptance by hunters, the AR15 rifle looks like it will become the new hunting standard much like the .30-06 of yesteryear.

[Eye of Unk]

I laugh when I see some PC correct grade B movie of soldiers using semi-auto weapons that are one shot per finger pull trying to emulate “assault” firearms. A real assault rifle is at least 3 shots or full auto, the old Springfields used in wars were not considered assault rifles since the were bolt action, a Thompson 45 is an assault rifle. My Winchester Model 70 bolt action is not an assault rifle, neither is my 10/22 Ruger or my Mini 14.

I would think a lot of people need to look up the real definition of assault or assauting in a dictionary.

[4buttons]

they've been in the mainstream for quite some time- probably started gaining acceptance years ago when they began to prove themselves (and gunsmiths began tuning them) in target competition.
Zumbo fell flat on his face with this, and he had to know full well to what degree shooters/hunters/varminters/competitors were/are using these rifles.
then again, Remington doesn't manufacture any...

[rellimpank]

—the most quickly dead antelope I ever shot was with a CAR-15—(syntax police alert)—

[04-Bravo]

The most accurate rifle I own is a Colt AR-15A2 Delta HBAR.

[rellimpank]

-—no doubt—I’ve been surprised at the first three shots from my CAR but after that it tends to vertical stringing—it’s an early model.

[calex59]

In most states any centerfire cartridge is legal to hunt deer with. The .222 was used years before the .223 came out and it would kill deer(at reasonable ranges) like lightning. I prefer a .30 caliber but I believe the AR15 now is chambered, or can be, for a variety of rounds and I wouldn’t mind owning one. I would especially like to test that .50 caliber round they have adapted to it.

[KrisKrinkle]

“Thompson 45 is an assault rifle”

If you mean the Thompson submachine gun, I disagree. It fires a cartridge originally designed for a pistol while an assault rifle fires a cartridge designed for a rifle—unless “gun-control” definitions are used in which case all bets are off as to what is really what.

[river rat]

Hell - where have you folks been!

The AR15 has been used to hunt dangerous animals since the 60’s...
REALLY dangerous animals — the kind who are armed and can shoot back!

Semper Fi

[decimon]

The expansion of calibers and wildly popular demand was missed by a few of the older generation such as Jim.

Subtle dig.

[Eaglefixer]

The original Stoner rifle, AR rifles, was a 7.62 NATO, 308 WIN.
That is now designated as the AR-10.

[rellimpank]

—at a gunshow a few years ago I attempted to do a little friendly kidding of a Leitner-Wise rep, who was extolling the virtue of their rebated-rim version of the .50-70—but he was not amused—

[Eye of Unk]

Technically you are right by virtue it uses a 45ACP, but that would be the same as saying any assault rifle using a pistol round cannot be called thus like the Uzi or an MP40.

[holymoly]

but that would be the same as saying any assault rifle using a pistol round cannot be called thus like the Uzi or an MP40.

If the firearm is capable of full-auto fire, and is chambered for a pistol round, it's a sub-machine gun. (The Germans referred to them as a "Maschinenpistole" or "machine pistol", which is where the "MP" in "MP-40" comes from).

The definition of "assault rifle" comes from the Sturmgewehr 44: a selective-fire rifle chambered for a rifle cartridge of reduced size and/or power.

[JudgemAll]

The only true assault rifle ever built is the full auto AK47 with folding stock. I believe others have barrels too long and other features which makes em more battle rifles than true assault rifles.

The only other in the western arsenal would be the short version of the CETME.

[Jack Black]

I would think a lot of people need to look up the real definition of assault or assauting in a dictionary. Definitions differ. Yours is "can fire full auto, or semi auto bursts". That's fine but a lot of other people have different definitions. It's one of those words, like "tactical" which has kinda died from promiscuous overuse.

[calex59]

Yes, I know about the stoner. I like the .308 round, but my main rifle now is a .300 win magnum. I would like to go back, and will, to a smaller round. My favorite all around round is the .243.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***The most accurate rifle I own is a Colt AR-15A2 Delta HBAR.***

Same here. The next is a bolt action Savage 110 FP. Plus quite a few “also ran’s” with telescope sights.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***The only true assault rifle ever built is the full auto AK47 with folding stock***

The Germans of WWII will be surprised to hear that.

[Jack Black]

The original Stoner rifle, AR rifles, was a 7.62 NATO, 308 WIN. That is now designated as the AR-10.

Armalite AR-10T, their top accuracy model. .308.

The "retro" AR-10B. These were issued in Mozambique or Sudan I in about 1965, when the Portugese still ran parts of Africa. They come with a toaster, for some reason.

DPMS Inc. also makes AR-10 style rifles. This is their bull-barrel model.

Knight Armaments was the place where the invetor of the M-16 went after (the original) Armalite closed shop. Eugene Stoner continued to work on his designs. Many people consider the Knights the "real" AR-10, and they have a great reputation and are used by the US Military. I don't know if Armalites or DPMSs are used by the armed forces. I believe these are the only three current manufacturers of AR-10 (.308) pattern rifles. Bushmaster took a try at it, but their design had some issues and I think they discontinued it. f AR-10s cost from a little to a lot more than either an AR-15 or a decent bolt action, which is one reason I don't think it will become all that mainstream as a hunting rifle. The .223 maybe for varmints. But as a big game rifle I think the bolt is pretty secure as the hunters choice.

Also note that AR-10s do not have universal magazine interchange, unlike AR-15s (.223 version) which do. (AR-15 mags are too small to hold .308 ammo) The Knights uses a unique magazine design, which DPMS has chosen to clone for their guns. The Armalite was re-introduced during the AWB when no new mags could be used, so their design uses modified M-14 magazines. For the same reason I believe the Bushmaster tried to use FN-FAL magazines.