Should We Have Gun Control for Psychotics?

realclearpolitics.com ^ | May 03, 2007 | Steve Chapman

[neverdem]

In the aftermath of the Virginia Tech massacre, there was the usual debate between supporters and opponents of gun control. On one thing, though, everyone seemed to be in agreement: Cho Seung-Hui, whom a judge had found a danger to himself, should never have been allowed to buy a gun. But now that legislation has been introduced in Congress to keep deranged people from getting firearms, we find not quite everyone is on board.

Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, Cho was legally barred from gun possession. The law disqualifies people in several categories, including anyone convicted of a felony or of domestic violence, anyone in the country illegally, anyone dishonorably discharged from the military, and anyone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution."

Cho fit the last category. But because he was never committed, the state didn't include his name on the list it submitted for the federal database used to check the eligibility of gun buyers. This week, the governor of Virginia signed legislation to change the state's reporting process.

Better still, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) has introduced a bill to require states to provide the FBI with all the records needed for background checks, including those dealing with mental health adjudications. It also provides funds to the states to upgrade their reporting systems.

McCarthy is a fervent supporter of stricter gun laws who...

--snip--

So how did the NRA react? Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said the organization supports measures to assure that mental health records get into the federal database. "Our position on this is crystal clear: If you are adjudicated by a court to be mentally defective, suicidal, a danger to yourself or to others, you should be prohibited from buying a firearm," he told...

[neverdem]

I'd like that to be explained for folks who are not lawyers. What does, "If you are adjudicated by a court to be mentally defective," mean? Does a local justice of the peace or magistrate make these determinations? What does mentally defective mean exactly? A danger to yourself or to others as determined by whom, one physician or two, two psychiatrists, are any psychologists involved, etc.?

Folks who have major depressive disorder, dementia and psychotic schizophrenics would seem to be the folks that are the only ones who would be determined to be a danger to themselves or to others, but this mentally defective category could be overly broad. Remember the Soviet Union's abuses of psychiatry.

What about restoration of rights when the depressed are cured or folks are misdiagnosed? I haven't addressed privacy considerations. This is not legislation that should be done in haste.

[Tolsti]

It means basically that a judge says you’re a danger to yourself or others and you have to stay in the tank for longer than 72 hours. Often they’ll give people a choice, if you want to leave, face the judge.. Otherwise you stay voluntarily and it doesn’t go on your record.

If someone says you’re suicidal or whatever and throws you in, it’s best to go with it and not get it on your record.

[LegendHasIt]

"Should We Have Gun Control for Psychotics?

How about we just have Psychotic Control instead?

[CrawDaddyCA]

Some minor side effects are a small price to pay for reducing the threat posed by the likes of Cho Seung-Hui.

I'll take my chances...

We're always just one more gun law away from a perfect society, according to some people.

[TheBridge]

There should be stricter guidelines for reporting on someone who seeks psychiatric help, like that nutcase at VT. All databases need constant updating.

[endthematrix]

How come I always get the “minor side effects” that is bestowed by do-gooders?

[familyop]

Yes, it’s possible that eventually, a large effort to evaluate individual conservatives as being mentally ill could happen. Psych. is a gooey “science” and could be abused, as it was in the Soviet Union.

...wish we could absolutely stop violence, but that’s not going to happen. As violence per capita has increased over the decades, though, perhaps we could review to find out where we went wrong.

[endthematrix]

The Feds didn’t want to touch the problem with College record keeping after 9/11. The Nation would have a collective “Oh Shitte!” if they found out how many unscrupulous persons enter through student visas and the like.

Also, if we can’t get reporting on illegal immigration when all one needs to do is ask for proper ID, how is one gonna have authorization on asking for mental status?

[barb-tex]

This Law will never fly. Since these are medical records, I believe some one will sue to overturn based on Privacy rights. The gungrabbers will claim that everyone that wants to possess a gun is mentally unsound.Of course if we locked up ALL the nutcases, who would we get to guard them?
barbra ann

[Myrddin]

It's a slippery slope. Would a liberal judge label a politically conservative person as "mentally defective"? Could a disagreement between spouses be turned into a legal action by slimeball lawyers that results in the label "mentally defective"?

I prefer to separate those who aren't fit to possess a firearm from society until they are fit. Likewise with felony drunk drivers. It isn't enough to pass laws forbidding them to drive cars or possess firearms. They will drive without a license, without insurance and drunk until they are removed from society.

[endthematrix]

From cradle to grave...while we wait, we get “universal mental health screening.”

[Inquisitive1]

How about we just have Psychotic Control instead?

Well, we already have 'Psychotics for Gun Control'

[Maurice Tift]

  These laws only work for the law abiding psychos. If you take guns away from the law abiding psychos, then how will they protect themselves from the psychos who don't bother to obey the law???

  Anyway, I hope they don't take guns away from people who are merely paranoid. I was walking home today and some guy hammering nails in a roof was hammering in Morse code that he was going to get me!!

[Tzimisce]

...well, we want to let psychotics and criminals vote - maybe we should ask them...

[HarmlessLovableFuzzball]

a large effort to evaluate individual conservatives as being mentally ill could happen.

I think that evaluation was done a long time ago in this country and the results were declared conclusive beyond the shadow of a doubt.

[rmlew]

The far left has already tried to define conservatism as a mental disorder.
1. During the Goldwater Campaign LBJ had some shrinks come out and "diagnose" Barry Goldwater.
2. American Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin ran a study from Berkley back in 2003 tried to define conservatism as irrational reactionary behavior. "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition"
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hannahk/conservatism.html

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/thomas072903.asp

[weegee]

Beyond not being able to “buy a gun”, he should not have been permitted in public unescorted.

He could still hit someone with a car deliberately, build a simple explosive device, or go on a rampage with a blade. He’d attempted arson and was stalking women.

Criminal insane is as criminal insane does.

[arderkrag]

Should We Have Gun Control for Psychotics?

Who's going to do the diagnosing? Oh yeah - the same intellectual highbrows that would be in favor of nuclear disarmament and universal firearm bans. In light of that, i'd have to say no.

[familyop]

"From cradle to grave...while we wait, we get 'universal mental health screening.'"

Yeah, it's a racket. Most of us who've attended universities have done general psych. (intro psych.), because it was an easy general requirement class. And most of us have seen the nuts in those psych. and soc. departments, from disfunctional families, analyzing themselves (not all but many).

I need a witch doctor who rattles gourds and screeches, "Booga, booga!" to keep me going. ;-) Oh, and lots of popcorn, tea and raisins. Playing Quake is also good therapy. ...cures one of deep thoughts and other stinking, lefty, hysterical thinking. Besides, the sound of those guts hitting the floor after enemies explode is really funny.

Most in our nation have gone crazy, IMO. We're seeing something like a national competition to find and elevate the one person most easily offended and to eliminate all others from public existence.

[familyop]

"I think that evaluation was done a long time ago in this country and the results were declared conclusive beyond the shadow of a doubt."

Yes, come to think of it, the kooky liberals are paranoid (in the non-clinical sense) and afraid of healthy, old fashioned people. What happened to the days when we could tease lefty over lunch and still be friends?