Posted on 05/27/2007 6:59:49 PM PDT by freedomdefender
I grew up Anglican in Canada, and as luck would have it, moved to New Hampshire in ‘95. I loved the Anglican/Episcopal communion, but...
Those Sodomite Bastards stole my church from me!!!
I am adrift, and I don’t know what to do. I have no church, and no comfort.
CURSE YOU GENE ROBINSON, AND ALL OF YOUR ILK! YOU STOLE MY CHURCH!!!!
Once upon a time we Catholics spoke of the Episcopalians as “skim-milk.” Well, the EC is spoiled milk but the Anglicans rank at least 2%.
Gene Robinson: Gay Rights FIRST, Priestly duties SECOND.
This is fascinating. We rent; and you're right. We cannot offer all the programs that a group with a building can; but we CAN help churches with buildings with their events -- financially, and with warm bodies to help. We have a lot of money to use for community outreaches and to be the sole support of two missionaries, clandestinely, in muslim countries. We give scholarships to local students going into ministerial studies; we do a back-to-school shopping thing with JC Penney where we go through the store giving $100 gift cards to families shopping for their kids' school clothes. We are able to help a lot of native American families this way; others, too. It sure is fun. We give out around $6000 annually that way. We also team financially with missionaries to the state universities, we team with Salvation Army to intervene in utilities when people are between jobs, we team with the abortion-rescue clinic that saves about 80 babies a year from the abortionists.
But it is a niche for a group of people who don't want to pay pastors' salaries or building mortgages. Most of those churches' funds are already spoken for. If they want to help someone, they have to have a bake sale. But, we are all in the same Body of Christ; we just have niches.
Wiki - Utah County, Utah (County Seat Provo, also home of Brigham Young University) - Politics
This county is often referred to as "the most Republican county in the most Republican state in the United States." In the 2004 presidential election, 85.99% voted for George W. Bush. [2] However, this title is inaccurate as Rich County, Utah cast 88.91% of its vote for Bush
Ann Coulter likes to mention in 1992 Bill Clinton came in third in Utah.
Most Catholic parishes are 2% at best.
We rented for a couple of years before we ended up buying the church building we were renting (that congregation bought a smaller building from a third congregation, which in turn was buying a larger building). The place had a lot of deferred maintenence, and we had to have ownership to do what was needed. As a practical matter, we were too big for most of the traditional rentals.
On the other hand, we provide space when needed by a couple of new spin off churches who use rental space. A lot of churches are overburdened by debt which does eat into the mission budget. We have a policy against long term debt to avoid that problem.
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Indeed, and those under a certain cardinal seldom rate above 1%, but we do have a few that are cream, including a few Anglican useage ones. Forty years ago I asked a priest why, instead of concocting a new mass in English why we didn’t simply take the Book of Common Prayer and edit to to make it conform to Catholic theology. He just lloked at me and smiled. When I insisted, he stopped smiling. He had no answer.
Two Words: Thomas Cranmer.
I’m fortunate to attend an Anglicam Use, Roman Catholic church. We should also include churches that use the Traditional Latin Mass in conjuction with the Latin Novus Ordo. Also owed at least the status of Whole Milk are the yeoman conservative parishes maintaining the faith within the strictures of the vernacular NO.
A special place should be reserved for those who teach heresy in catechism and RCIA.
Cranmer was a heck of a wordsmith, as good in his language as Luther was in his.
Tell that to Henry VIII!
I think you and I are thinking of different things when we use the word "rent". Maybe I should have said "lease"
What I was suggesting was leasing of a church property, on maybe a 5 year lease arrangement. You would pay rent monthly. There would be no weekly setup or take down -- you would be the only occupant.
In other words, envision a standard church setup, only instead of the church owning the deed, the property is owned by a third party and the congregation pays rent rather than mortgage
As I said before, this avoids providing a target for looting. And as the congregation does not represent assets, only cash flow, it provides an incentive to the upper hierarchy to avoid annoying congregations to the point where they leave
I don’t think it’s really necessary to go that far either. When churches come and go that whimsically it just seems to be that much more evidence of worldliness. We have some like that around here. They’re either on fire or barely a flicker.
This ECUSA diocese was one of the first to run completely off the rails. We were o.k. in a parish with an older priest until he retired and the new guy turned out to be a screaming rainbow loon.
We have, however, found an excellent refuge in a very orthodox and traditional Catholic parish. I was afraid the music would be awful, but a new choirmaster has turned out to be the Real Deal. The theology is not what they used to tell us in Sunday School (what people outside the Church think about Catholic theology is quite different from what it really is). And as a bonus we get Adult Leadership.
Ya gotta hand it to Cranmer - his theology may have been confused, but the boy could WRITE. And he made a courageous end.
you may have no church building, but you are still a member of the Church, in full communion with the One who built the Church (as most of the liberal Episcopagans are no longer)
You are not alone or without comfort, that is the lesson of Pentecost yesterday (among others)
CANA, which the American Episcopal Church says is illegitimate, is legally a separate denomination—one can’t be Episcopalian and CANA at the same time—even though CANA is true to Episcopal values and the sodomite TEC is not. CANA is directly under Bishop Martin Minns, former Rector of Truro Church (founded in the 1750s) in Fairfax, Virginia.
Truro, The Falls Church (also ca. 1750s, which they named “Falls Church” Virginia, a suburb of DC, after) and around a dozen other Virginia (ex) Episcopal Churchs broke off at the end of last year forming CANA (the Convocation of Anglicans in North America) under the supervision, through Bishop Minns, of Archbishop Akinola of Nigeria. CANA now has something over 30 ex-TEC churches under it’s jurisdiction, and is being sued greatly...(down to each vestryman) by TEC.
There is Virginia statutory law though which supports each congregation keeping their property. In our “legal” system though, that’s no guarantee, but they do have more of a chance than in other states. It appears that TEC’s lawsuits are simply mean-spirited attempts to punish those who dare to object to and quit their apostasy.
As to this Colorado case, it appears that the (apostate) Bishop there knew that this priest, Armstrong would sooner or later bolt from TEC. In order to keep the congregation from being led there, dirt was concocted up to try to depose the evangelical priest, before he got a chance to leave. The congregation saw through this though, and has bolted anyway...supporting their priest.
There is no end of the unfair tactics these “nice, inclusive, loving” liberals will use to control each congregation of TEC.
Never trust a man in a dress.
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