"A mother who took her daughter to die"

TimesOnline ^ | June 3, 2007 | Sarah-Kate Templeton

[JamesP81]

Do you support the death penalty? That’s murder too.

This comment is foolish.

I generally do not support the death penalty except in extreme cases, like treason (this is only because our justice system is presently not capable of handling so great a power responsibly). All that said, however, the death penalty is most certainly not murder. The DP is no more murder than an armed citizen using deadly force to protect himself is. The DP is no more murder than it is for a soldier to carry out his duty and kill his enemies in battle.

[JamesP81]

The concept of a 'valid reason' that you or a judge or society or congress determines can be at odds with a 'personal choice.'

Let's not forget the fact that I don't want uncle Sam deciding what that 'valid reason' is. This whole load of crap is just another way of transferring rights away from the people and transferring powers to the government, something all good Americans should have nothing to do with.

[Incorrigible]

Sad MS bump

[HangnJudge]

Wesley Covenant Prayer

The Prayer
I am no longer my own, but thine.
Put me to what thou wilt, rank me with whom thou wilt.
Put me to doing, put me to suffering.
Let me be employed by thee or laid aside for thee,
exalted for thee or brought low for thee.
Let me be full, let me be empty.
Let me have all things, let me have nothing.
I freely and heartily yield all things to thy pleasure and disposal.
And now, O glorious and blessed God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
thou art mine, and I am thine.
So be it.
And the covenant which I have made on earth,
let it be ratified in heaven.
Amen.

[little jeremiah]

Incredible saddening. And to top it off, the Vicar who approved of this murder/suicide. He shares the blame.

I have a friend with MS whom I am helping with some herbs; she loves life, has a positive attitude (although had much suffering in her life) and is willing to stay until God takes her.

[mbraynard]

This whole load of crap is just another way of transferring rights away from the people and transferring powers to the government, something all good Americans should have nothing to do with.

It does depend on what you consider a 'right' to be. John Edwards believes that you have a right to college, a right to healthcare, and a right to be a US citizen if you have been in the country for more than one year illegally.

Then there are questions of what are more civil rights like supposed victimless crimes like prostitution, drug use, and drunk driving (my favorite 'victimless' crime to bring up).

[little jeremiah]

I never read that prayer before. It’s awesome.

[metmom]

Let's not forget the fact that I don't want uncle Sam deciding what that 'valid reason' is.

That whole thing is a slippery slope. What happens when the *medical community* decides that you're not lucid enough to make your own decisions? Then they make if for you? And what qualifies as *lucid* in their book? Agreeing with them?

You finally get to the point where if you disagree with the doctors prognosis and don't choose to do yourself in, they declare you incompetent because you are clearly incapable of seeing the problem *objectively* and then they decide for you. A whole world full of Terri's who aren't nearly so incapacitated physically, just *in the way*.

BTW, rollie, interesting posting history you have there.

[HangnJudge]

I never read that prayer before. It’s awesome.

It is a covenant prayer of the Methodist Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Covenant_Prayer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodism

[xc1427]

...probably something much worse. Some nutjob will get the idea, obtain funding, and the “company” will trade on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol: KIL, etc.

[little jeremiah]

Anyone who likes the idea of “doctor assisted suicide” is really saying they like it for OTHER people. It’s perfectly easy to commit suicide without any laws, so-called clinics, or Dr. Kevorkians. Heck, there are guns, poisons, sleeping pills, ropes, bridges, gas ovens and cliffs all available right now. People have been jumping off Golden Gate Bridge ever since it was built.

If the cheerleaders of doctor assisted suicide think suicide is so great for other people, let them be the first on their block, so to speak...

[little jeremiah]

Thanks, I’ve got it saved in my special file now!

[metmom]

Exactly. If suicide is such a personal choice and doesn’t harm anyone, people can do it to themselves for free, like they have been for thousands of years.

Those who advocate for clinics are just pro-death and pro-murder.

[rollie]

I have been posting/lurking here since 1999. I actually get too busy to hang out here 24/7 unlike some people. Then I lost my previous user name/password after I changed ISPs. You can’t tell squat about how long a person’s been posting here by their user name. Surely you know that.....

[JamesP81]

drunk driving

Drunk driving is not a victimless crime, and I think the sham war on drugs is doing more damage than good.

[JamesP81]

You finally get to the point where if you disagree with the doctors prognosis and don't choose to do yourself in, they declare you incompetent because you are clearly incapable of seeing the problem *objectively* and then they decide for you. A whole world full of Terri's who aren't nearly so incapacitated physically, just *in the way*.

This is the ultimate, inevitable end result of govt run healthcare. Once the government finds out how expensive intensive medical care can be, there will be a great impetus towards euthanising those that are costing the public coffers too much.

[mbraynard]

Yes, drunk driving is a victemliss crime. So is driving while under the influence of cocaine, heroin, or marijuana.

Who is the victim when the person - found driving under the influence and jailed - hasn't harmed anyone? Please, point to the victim?

I am illustrating to you how obsurd the concept of legalizing 'victimless crimes.' Firm supporter of vigorous anti-drug laws.

[mbraynard]

It’s actually women who try suicide for more frequently and fail far more frequently - or anyone who uses suicide as a cry for help - who will find themselves in these death clinics where the completion rate is, well, much higher than sucking down a bunch of sleeping pills.

[JamesP81]

Who is the victim when the person - found driving under the influence and jailed - hasn't harmed anyone? Please, point to the victim?

You can't put the public in danger wantonly. What you're saying is exactly the same as saying that yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater is OK as long as no one gets hurt. This is, of course, absurd. You can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater because it puts people in jeopardy of life and limb; as does drunken driving.

The concept of repealing laws against victimless crimes is not absurd, especially considering the constitutional rights abuses associated with the pursuit of the sham drug war. No knock raids and asset forfeiture are clearly unconstitutional concepts.

[ears_to_hear]

Exactly.

MS is no longer a death sentence.

In the US (I was told by a physician) the Treatment is around $70,000 a year. I wonder if the UK socialized medicine offers anything near that .

That may have played into this.

I have a very sick dog that can hardly walk and loses his urine and I would not put my old friend down because I love him .

I can not believe a mother would do this