Posted on 06/04/2007 4:21:36 PM PDT by wagglebee
Laconia, NH (LifeNews.com) -- At a campaign event in New Hampshire last week, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney would not go so far as to label abortion "murder." The former Massachusetts governor's reluctance to use a term frequently employed by pro-life advocates drew criticism from Sam Brownback's campaign.
Romney appeared in the Granite State on a whistle tour campaign that finished up with an hour-long town meeting where attendees could ask the candidate any question they wanted.
A man who described himself as a "social conservative" wanted Romney to answer the question of whether he thought abortion was "murder."
Romney declined to characterize abortion that way and said that the term "means different things to different people."
He added that the bottom line for him is that at conception the unborn child is "alive and it is human" and he called abortion the taking of a human life. Romney also said that Roe v. Wade should be overturned and states should be able to make their own decisions on abortion.
Martin Gillespie, political director of Sam Brownback's campaign seized on those comments and told LifeNews.com that he thought Romney was again changing his position on abortion.
"Mitt Romney's flip-flops on abortion throughout the years make more sense now," he said. "Every different Romney flip-flop on abortion has coincided perfectly with the most politically expedient position of the campaign he was in."
"Romney says life begins at conception, but doesn't think abortion is murder and Romney says he's pro-life but he thinks states should be able to choose to allow abortion," Gillespie added. "Every time he tries to clarify, as he tried to do last week, it becomes more and more confusing."
Responding to the Brownback campaign’s comments, Kevin Madden, a spokesman for Romney, talked with LifeNews.com.
“Governor Romney is firmly pro-life and is he will continue to encourage, promote and defend pro-life policies," he said. "Advocacy of these policies and bringing others towards a pro-life position is an important part of the governor’s efforts.”
Gillespie indicated that Romney has repeatedly said he opposes a Human Life Amendment to the Constitution that would affirm legal protection for unborn children
"Unlike Romney, Sam Brownback is a strong supporter of the Human Life Amendment and is genuinely pro-life," Gillespie maintained.
Pro-Life Ping
it potential voters = in potential voters
Bingo. And, unfortunately, 98% of the post-2006-midterm-elections FR won’t understand that.
As long as abortion remains legal, it is not murder. Zealots might think it makes good points in a debate to call it murder, but that doesn't make them correct.
It might be wrong, it might be absolutely abhorrent to people, but murder is a legal term... the legal definition applies.
“It might be wrong, it might be absolutely abhorrent to people, but murder is a legal term... the legal definition applies.”
How about we call it homicide? Which, IIRC, it is.
Brownback Flip-Flops on Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants April 3rd, 2007
Only a couple of short years ago, Sam Brownback was interviewed by John Hawkins from Right Wing News. Hawkins asked Senator Brownback what his stance was on illegal immigration and whether or not he supported Amnesty for illegal aliens. Brownback said he did not.
John Hawkins: Now, would it be beneficial in your opinion to get it down by just simply making them citizens?
Sam Brownback: I don’t think anybody’s looking at that and I’m not familiar with individuals in the Republican party that are looking at a system like what President Reagan did, where he just granted a blanket amnesty.
Here we see Sam Brownback say very clearly that he is not examining a blanket amnesty proram for illegals. The full interview can be viewed here. http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/brownback.php
Fast forward only one short year, and Brownback co-sponsored S. 2611. The bill would grant blanket amnesty to most illegal aliens and was co-sponsored by Ted Kennedy. It can be viewed here
For all of the accusations of “flip-flopping” that Brownback supporters dump on Mitt Romney, it seems that Sam Brownback is not immune either.
Homicide is ~more~ correct than murder is.
And Brownback won’t call illegal immigrtion invasion.
Neither will Roody.
Yep. That particular form of homicide, against defenseless innocents, is particularly repugnant to many of us. It is, in effect, murder. Murder most foul. Legal murder, as liberals like to call the death penalty for criminals, except the only crime these victims commit is to be conceived at an inconvenient time. That is an “Inconvenient Truth.”
spot-on argument.
Telling the truth often makes you lose elections. Look how the democrats avoid it.
Proves to me once again that Mitt Romney is really a wolf-in-sheep’s clothing. I don’t believe he believes truely in Conservatism (Ronald Reagan Conservatism): He merely wants to make it look like he is (nominally-”in the middle”) which means he wants it BOTH ways!
He wants to appeal to the wishy-washy wall-street croud, and at the same time (do anything) pick up-enough Conservative votes to try to get the nomination, yet really be a “pragmastist” (POST MODERN), rather than truel leadership.
I agree 100%. I have a friend whose daughter had an abortion when she was a freshman in college--in large part due to the pressure she was getting from her idiot boyfriend. She was a good girl from a strong, religious family who got caught up with the wrong guy and made a very bad decision that ended up devastating her. She's worked hard to get her life back in order and made it through college, but still is filled with regret. Maybe some people are comfortable in labeling her a "murderer," but personally I am not. I don't imagine that her situation is that unusual.
“It might be wrong, it might be absolutely abhorrent to people, but murder is a legal term... the legal definition applies.”
I’m neither an historian nor a linguist so I may be wrong, but I would be willing to bet that the word murder existed and had a meaning before the advent of the American legal system or even English Common Law.
The word can and does have a meaning outside of the legal technical definition. If a murder suspect plea-bargains down to first degree manslaughter, I and the majority of non-jurists would probably still consider him a murderer.
I know Mitt is a RINO
Mitt only seems remotely palatable when compared to hard-core leftists like Roody.
That’s fine. You’re allowed to vote how you wish.
It takes wisdom to know when to speak absolute "truth" vs having discretion.
"Gee darling, you look like a fat cow in the outfit..." BZZZ! NOT!
"I think abortion is wrong" vs "I think anyone who has had an abortion is a heinous murderer".
Well, Mitt, how about defining it from the angle of how the baby sees it? [Now wouldn't that be a Biblical revelation to a candidate who says he has his own hip-pocket prophet?]
What next? A throwback to the states to allow for them whether or not slaves are property?
I bear you my testimony that Mitt's a RINO
Here is the YouTube of the Q&A.
Kennedy was right. He is multiple choice Mitt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBstHDhikio
I've got an ad jingle for him: "Have it your way. Have it your way!" (It's bound to attract the post-modern vote)
I can see why Brownback isn’t getting any traction. This attack is as stupid as the come. Does anyone recall a sitting president, calling abortion murder?
There are very few real conservatives left and fewer still electable. Duncan Hunter is getting no traction at all.
Actually Romney has never flip flopped on abortion, that would mean being pro choice, then going pro life and then going back to pro choice. That is a flip flop.
It is early and let’s see what Tuesday night brings.
Abortion is not murder, but it is taking a life because “no one knows absolutely when the soul enter the body and neither do you”!
Senator Browneye can go to hell. He didn’t bother to show up to vote for Norm Coleman’s critical amendment today to ban “sanctuary cities”. It failed by a single vote. What a schmuck.
you are a willful distorter that is not what he said but that does not matter to you!
Abortion is taking a life, but it not murder, because “no one knows absolutely when the soul enter the body and neither do you”!
You must have me confused with another poster.
OK, if "no one knows absolutely when the soul enter the body," then "no one knows absolutely if the soul has entered the body" by the time a baby is a day or two old (or later), now do we?
Come on, now. People who wouldn't even lift a gun barrel in Bamby's direction are all too quick to "put down" a baby's life just because they have no spiritual detection of a soul? Alright, now that's a creepy theological position.
“I bear you my testimony that Mitt’s a RINO”
You made me laugh.
And Harry Reid is a MINO (Mormon in Name Only). Ha!
pro-life bump
I used to have a bumper sticker on my car that read, “Abortion is Murder” and it was dripping with blood. But then I got to thinkin’ . . . am I calling the woman who has an abortion a murderer or am I calling the abortionist a murderer.
I don’t have a problem with “abortion is killing” or something like that but if you start calling the girls who’ve had abortions murderers, you will not be helping them to overcome the pain and suffering. You will just make them feel worse and probably angry because it shows a lack of compassion.
I don’t care what they call it. I just want to make sure that they don’t support it.
If Brownback wasn’t a complete open borders pro-legalization wimp, he’d be a viable candidate.
“I’m not certain we win ultimately by tossing around those terms in public. I think we need to win people to an affirmative position, a regard for human life from conception to death.”
I’m certain that we won’t win with those kinds of terms in general elections. I’d guess that “Abortion is murder” would poll somewhere in the 30s in agreement. Since a significant portion of woman above age 20 have had abortions (remember its a holocaust of 40 million so far, that’s 40 million *would be mothers who aborted their own children*), hillary could be out there telling women “I’m one of you, my opponent thinks a quarter of you are murderers. Who do you trust?”
On the other hand, we could the life argument wins hands down with a clear logical science-based argument that every abortion is the taking of a human life. Life is in the womb and it is destroyed. Far better to win on facts and let others come to a moral conclusion themselves than to be cast as ‘too judgmental’ by our anti-judgemental culture.
I’m prolife and I wouldn’t use the murder term, since it implies intentionality that may not be there. As the first martyr St Stephen said, “Forgive them Lord, they know not what they do.”
Situation is all-too common, esp. the complicity of others in getting women to abort their babies.
I agree with you and Saundra on using the term murder in public political debate. I won’t fault a candidate for saying it but something tells me that isn’t how we’ll increase respect for life issues. This business involves a lot more than hollering ‘murder’ and expecting the world to change instantly. We should never let up in our determination but we have to be patient and persuasive.
I often wonder how many of the hard core prolifer here on FR have ever had any personal experience with the issue. It is easy to stand on the sidelines and throw mud and expect perfection, but life isn’t always that black and white.
I am ardently prolife because of just such a real life experience. Does a mistake I made 36 years ago make me a murder, we’ll let God be the ultimate judge of that. What you do as a scared 19 y/o and how you see life as mature adult can be very different. I would suggest that all of these holier than thous here should spend some time reading some of the heart wrenching stories of remorse written by men and women posted on the “Silent No More” website.
If you are talking about the leaches at PPH that pry on young women and men to make money, the doctors that live in huge estates paid for in the blood of dead babies or women who are proudly working on their 4th or 5th abortion that my friend is a very different story.
I would love to think that we could wave a magic wand and never have another abortion committed in this country again, but realistic I want to work sensibly in a way that makes us as successful as possible in stopping this horrible legacy. Having a Mitt Romney in the WH supported by a agreeable Congress will get a lot more done than letting one issue voters put Hillary and her butchers in control.
I think Gov. Romney's response was spot on ... a solid, articulate, pro-life answer.
For a candidate to clearly say that abortion, from the moment of conception, is the taking of a human life ... and get slammed for lack of pro-life purity ... makes no sense to me.
I'm interested in stopping abortions via the political process, not having a contest to see who can call it the worst names.
Please FreepMail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.
Wow, that’s quite a powerful perspective and it sounds like your experience had a profound impact on you. Yes, this is a battle that must be fought at a legislative and judicial level—but much less so than at a personal morality level, IMO. I’m pro-life and have always been so, but I’ve had a really hard time judging women who have had abortions because I know there are so many factors that play into a decision of that magnitude. It’s something I’ve struggled with quite frankly not because I don’t believe in the sanctity of life, but that I realize that there are a lot of women who don’t hold my same beliefs and would end up seeking illegal abortions that could cost them their lives if a safe alternative was not available to them.
Everyone has to come to terms with the level of government intrusion in such decisions. That was definitely Romney’s main dilemma as to how he viewed abortion after witnessing the death of his relative who had obtained an abortion illegally. The issue had touched him personally and influenced his point of view. His pro-choice position was not due to some sick desire to allow millions of babies die because he believed they weren’t living human beings. He obviously knew they were because of his own personally held beliefs about abortion, but he also realized that government can’t dictate morality—it still can’t and never will be able to. I think the cloning and embryonic farming issue that was dumped into his lap as governor of MA finally made him realize that the issue had far greater consequence than just potentially endangering the lives of women and that ultimately caused him to change his point of view.
People can say that the change was politically expedient (having occurred only 2 years ago), but they should also consider that Romney didn’t seek out the cloning and embryonic stem-cell research debate—it literally found him when the researchers at Harvard University started to pursue the issue with reckless abandon. As a result of being forced to deal with the problem head on, he emerged from it a changed man. Is the change sincere? That will be up to the voters to decide, but I think it’s disingenous for people to just discount Romney’s experience as “just another flip-flop” because he is running for president without considering both his personal history with the issue and how his experiences as a governor greatly affected his conversion.
The only real way that we win the battle for life is to change hearts and minds. It’s slowly happening, but we are making progress nonetheless. That’s why I think using the rhetoric that abortion is “murder” because that somehow makes a candidate “more conservative” than another is counterproductive to the goal of ending abortion once and for all. The Supreme Court can overturn Roe vs. Wade, but that won’t stop abortions from taking place because whether abortion is considered “murder” can greatly fluctuate from person-to-person. We need government to put the decision back in the hands of the states (which is Romney’s goal) and then the people need to do the rest in changing the mindset of society. The latter goal has absolutely zero to do with who we elect as president.
I do sincerely apologized for misreading your post sorry!
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