(Idaho Senators) Craig, Crapo still think immigration bill may pass

The Idaho Statesman: When News Breaks, We Distort It ^ | 11 June 2007 | Kevin Diaz

[LaineyDee]

I'm as opposed to illegal immigration as anyone, but touting imaginary solutions ain't gonna cut it.

My point is being accused of "touting anything". Your accusation was arrogant and untrue.

Farmers ain't stupid (I was raised on a farm in farm country, so I'm more aware of this than you think).

So what? I live on 50 acres, grow my own fruit trees (including apples) and was raised going to my grandpa's farm every weekend to help out. Does that make me an expert? No....but it does give me an interest in keeping up with some of the latest in farming technology... which is why I knew about the so-called "imaginary apple harvester". It fascinates me.

As a nurse....I see the downside of what the illegals do to suck the Medicaid system dry, glut the ER's for non-medical emergencies and use valuable educational resources they cannot pay for or have no intention of paying for...while legitimate citizens get turned down for those same services... left and right.

And really, I see no reason not to have a REAL guest worker program that has enough teeth to assure that the "guest workers" actually GO BACK HOME.

There are laws already set in place to utilize temporary foreign workers and to deport them if they overstay their time limits. The gov't just needs to enforce them. Period.

[gubamyster]

ping

[Wonder Warthog]

"Then the question becomes, why should a farmer pay for such a machine, if initially, it will cost more than illegals?"

Simply because, for the most part, automated machinery will ALWAYS be cheaper than the illegals IF THE MACHINERY WORKS!

As to who those first users are, they are usually the ag research centers themselves.

[Wonder Warthog]

http://www.agen.ufl.edu/~tburks/Publication%20PDF/Burks%20Hort%20Robotic%202003.pdf

Read this report. It’s a summary of the state of the art in machine harvesting, and concludes that none of the approaches are yet “ready for prime time”. So my comment about you touting imaginary solutions stands as stated.

[Cacique]

This is not over yet. Bush refuses to give up this easily. It's his stuborn character. He will try to resurect it and call it something else. We have to keep our guard up. We need to keep the pressure up.

STAGE TWO is to go after the people who hire illegals. Start giving them fines and arresting them. Just catch ten or 100 of them on the nightly news. The magnet will dry up and most of the 12 million will go home by themselves.

As an adendum, we should anonymously call the IRS, people working "off the books" means taxes ain't being paid. Make anonymous fliers and hang them around the neighborhood, name names. It's time to embarras these bustards, whether they give to the GOP or Rats, we don't need them.

STOP AMNESTY NOW!! WE CAN DO IT!!

CALL! CALL! CALL! CALL! AND KEEP CALLING TILL THE LINES FRY!

WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! TILL YOU RUN OUT OF INK IN YOUR PEN!

Bombard the Democrats as well, especially the ones that ran on an anti illegal immigration plank and the ones in marginal districts who could be vulnerable. keep pounding on them. This is a bipartisan issue not a Conservative or Liberal issue BUT AN AMERICAN issue.

[GOP_Raider]

2008. He has hinted that he may not run again. To my great dissapointment, Vasquez out of Canyon County dropped out. I would have worked for him, he is on the ball on immigration.

I know I have my issues with Vasquez, as many other conservatives around the state do, but I posted an article a while back about Vasquez being unable to raise enough money for a potential 08 Senate campaign, the "blame" was on us mean ol' conservatives for not supporting the guy. (I'll have to find that article when I get a free moment.)

On the other hand, if there were ever a time where Vasquez could gather a second wind, it'd be now.

[GOP_Raider]

What I dislike about his stand is that he is taking the easy way which would include those who have come illegally. He believes there must be a some kind of deal.

Or to put it another way, he is actually naive/stupid enough to believe that all of the illegals currently here are going to actually "go to the back of the line", "have to pay fines, penalties, etc.".

[LaineyDee]

Uh uh.... You said it was an “imaginary solution”.....I contended it was not. The only reason it isn’t being utilized and bettered....is called “research funding”. The machine they developed is useable and not “imaginary”. You’re just looking for excuses for your boorish behavior.

[lonestar]

"It's such a tough political issue because we've got people on either side of it," said John Thompson ...

That's exactly what this is all about--"political issue" and the people who pay the bills are being ignored!

[janetgreen]

I hope the Senators and Reps from "BOTH" PARTIES who vote for this monstrosity all know they'll be heading for the unemployment office when this mess is over.

Bush won't have to worry - he'll no doubt be living in luxury in Paraguay, not caring that he sold America out.

[unspun]

More politicians on the dole, eh?

I like the idea of ending employment tax credits for those who hire illegals -- and the six month jail penalty, for repeat offenders.

Take that, Senator Big Spuds.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Uh uh.... You said it was an “imaginary solution”.....I contended it was not. The only reason it isn’t being utilized and bettered....is called “research funding”. The machine they developed is useable and not “imaginary”. You’re just looking for excuses for your boorish behavior."

Read the paper I posted. A research prototype does NOT equate to a viable machine. So, yes, it "is" an imaginary solution.

As to my "boorish behavior", you haven't seen "boorish" yet. But if you like, I "can" exhibit some.

[Delphinium]

Robert could have gone along way if he wasn't so nasty and poor loser like.

In my opinion that is the ONLY thing that sunk him

[LaineyDee]

Did you read the U of WV site on the machine they developed? I think I referred to it on my second post. Anyway... just because Texas A&M doesn't have it.....doesn't mean it's nonexistant...or imaginary as you implied...

BTW, it's okay on the boorish behavior.... you've already shown you have that down pat. No research needed there! *chuckle*

[GOP_Raider]

You’re absolutely right. If he wouldn’t have whined like a grounded 14 year old girl he’d probably be well on his way to replacing Craig.

[MrEdd]

imaginary solution.

Colloquialism. Anything conservatives say that might cause Liberals to give up something that makes them feel superior.

[Idaho Whacko]

Someplace in the south, a factory was raided last year. The meat company had to shut down for a bit, and then offer $1.00 per hour more in order to hire local citizens to fill the jobs vacated by the mexicans.

So for $1 per hour savings for the company, the local community had to pay for special ed teachers, translators, more cops, jail space,free medical, free schools, higher homeowners and car insurance and probably WIC and other benefits.

Any politician who supports companies like that is scum. The key for the whole deal is throwing employers in jail, and Cutting off gov’t services. We wouldn’t have to deport them, they would just hop on their burros and go home.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Did you read the U of WV site on the machine they developed? I think I referred to it on my second post. Anyway... just because Texas A&M doesn't have it.....doesn't mean it's nonexistant...or imaginary as you implied..."

Actually, yes. And what I found convinced me that it is very much a "work in progress" research gizmo--and not an available practical solution. BTW, making real working devices for use in the real world is what I do for a living (chemical instrumentation). These guys have a prototype--nothing more. A GREAT DEAL of investment would be needed to MAYBE make it into a usable commercial device.

So, yes, it "is" an imaginary solution.

[LaineyDee]

BTW, making real working devices for use in the real world is what I do for a living (chemical instrumentation).

Let's see....chemical instrumentation: MRIs, centrifuges......and apple harvesters. I'd see how those machines could parallel each other. *chuckle*

Harvesters are a viable option if they would fund the research and perfect the process. They don't want to. You called it imaginary... like it had never been invented. If they are not readily available to farmers...I would say you're falling down on your job. lol

[Wonder Warthog]

"Let's see....chemical instrumentation: MRIs, centrifuges......and apple harvesters. I'd see how those machines could parallel each other."

Good design is good design. When you've done it as long as I have, you can recognize crap when you see it, even if it's not directly related.

"Harvesters are a viable option if they would fund the research and perfect the process. They don't want to. You called it imaginary... like it had never been invented. If they are not readily available to farmers...I would say you're falling down on your job.

If the tech is so viable, then why don't the various state apple growers associations fund the research?? That's what any number of other crop support associations do. So that must be the "they" you're referring to. So why might "they" no do so.

The most probable reason is that they've looked at the device and decided it wasn't sufficiently practical. You see, I "did" read Petersen's research paper, and to get his gizmo to work, the apple trees must be "trained" into a very specific geometry--it won't work on just any old apple tree.

Which is why it "is" an imaginary solution. It's certainly not a REAL one.