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The Offensive Truth: Relativism and Our Kids
Breakpoint with Chuck Colson ^ | 6/20/2007 | Chuck Colson

Posted on 06/20/2007 8:58:09 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback

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To: Freedom_no_exceptions

A statement about truth is one which is wrong or right in a sense utterly independent of humanity. To say “Buddhism is correct” is a truth statement, even if it is wrong. To say “Buddhism is great” is not a truth statement.


51 posted on 06/21/2007 1:40:08 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Mr. Silverback
History has shown us time and time again that cultural relativism inevitably drags moral relativism in it's wake.

God save your souls.

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

52 posted on 06/21/2007 1:52:01 AM PDT by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions
Speaking of truth, meatball is the only acceptable pizza topping. Pepperoni, mushroom, sausage, and the like, are sins. This is such an obvious truth that no further explanation is required, because we meatball-topping-pizza-eaters have a monopoly on all truth. Anyone who believes otherwise is a relativist headed down the wrong path, and has no business being out in public trying to sell us normal folk on their evil toppings. We must teach...no, instill...no, wait, ram this down the throats of our children or we will all perish!

It sounds like you are a victim of the same flawed thinking that the children in the author's example are. Here is the concept put more simply: either believe in something or do not. If you believe in something only until someone with a different belief comes along, then you didn't really hold that belief, did you?

As an example, let's say I believe that the world is round. I am absolutely convinced of it. In such a case, it would be a betrayal of my own beliefs for me to say that "the world is flat" is an equally valid belief. Either the world is round, or the world is flat (or it is an oblate spheroid, but let's keep it simple). The point is that if I really believe the world is round, then I should be able to state that belief without doubt, and should have no compunction whatsoever about promoting that belief, as it is what I believe to be true, and therefore I would be leading others to truth if I were to convince them.

In the same way, if one believes that Christianity is the truth, and that all men go to God by faith in Jesus Christ, it would be asinine to undercut my own belief by stating that other beliefs could be valid, too. If I truly believe in Christianity, then I MUST believe that non-Christians are being led astray. If the non-Christians do not want to accept my views, then they certainly don't have to, but for me to say that their views are equally valid is to say that I don't really believe that my views are true.

One important thing to understand is that each person WILL eventually accept one belief or another, whether it be atheism, Christianity, Islam, or whatever. What is certain is that those belief systems in which the adherents are firm in their beliefs will survive, and those systems that have only wishy-washer followers will perish. If Christians do not stand firm and confident in their beliefs, then another belief will eventually take its place. One of the reasons Islam has made such inroads with people who would ordinarily scoff at religion is because they offer confident belief in the truth, and those Jewish and Christian sects which offer only wishy-washy, maybe-this maybe-that kind of stuff cannot compete.

Atheism offers nothing in spiritual terms, and so atheists are vulnerable to silly belief systems like Wicca and dangerous ones like Islam.
53 posted on 06/21/2007 1:52:55 AM PDT by fr_freak
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To: Mr. Silverback

I had a conversation with someone recently (a 30 year old woman) who had no religious upbringing. But, she was telling me all about how she believes “a little of this” and “a little of that.” Basically, she takes what she wants from different religions and makes up the rest. Then she teaches it to her son. Well, I gently pointed out to her that those religions that she was picking and choosing from were in direct contradiction with each other and that it really was not possible to take what you want from a particular religion and mix it with another since the individual religions don’t allow for that. Then, for an example, I told her that Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me” and she was stunned. “HE SAID THAT???” She didn’t know that and was very surprised. I told her that you can’t be a Christian and believe that other religions are valid. You should have seen the lightbulbs go off in her head.


54 posted on 06/21/2007 3:56:38 AM PDT by cantfindagoodscreenname (Is it OK to steal tag lines from tee-shirts and bumper stickers?)
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To: Mr. Silverback; 230FMJ; 49th; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

This is an excellent commentary by Chuck Colson!

55 posted on 06/21/2007 4:41:18 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: durasell; Mr. Silverback
I had anchovy pizza a month or so ago. It was a Friday, and my choices were limited. It was interesting, but I didn't eat any leftovers the next morning.

Good article.

56 posted on 06/21/2007 4:58:51 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Christ was nonjudgemental and His purpose among us was not to judge us- but people sure get confused by that, when they overlook His repeated sermons about the judgementalism that awaits us all by the Father!


57 posted on 06/21/2007 5:38:27 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: silverleaf

“Christ was nonjudgemental and His purpose among us was not to judge us”

You are correct in that He came not to judge, but it is not because of the judgment to come, it is because we have already been judged.

John 3:17-21
17”For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

18”He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19”This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

20”For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

21”But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”


58 posted on 06/21/2007 6:13:55 AM PDT by uptoolate (How can a Holy, Righteous, and Just God NOT kill me for what I said, thought and did yesterday)
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To: Mr. Silverback
One of the choices, “believing Islam, Buddhism or Christianity,” flashed on the screen. Our Centurion—I’ll call her Joanne, told me what happened next: “The students went nuts. All but one of the eight leaders completely balked at the concept of distinguishing Christianity as true and other religions as false.”

Mission accomplished. Who says schooling doesn't work?

Twenty years ago, college professor Alan Bloom wrote, in The Closing of the American Mind, "the only belief that entering freshman hold in common is that there is no such thing as absolute truth." (Great line, mediocre book)

59 posted on 06/21/2007 6:21:32 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: NYer; WKB; tutstar

Ping


60 posted on 06/21/2007 6:43:06 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
I told her that Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me” and she was stunned. “HE SAID THAT???” She didn’t know that and was very surprised. I told her that you can’t be a Christian and believe that other religions are valid. You should have seen the lightbulbs go off in her head.

***

Universalism, that all ways and roads, gods lead to Heaven and all this moral religious relativism is deception from the pit of hell. It is blasphemy, a false idol, breaking of the commandment that we shall have no other Gods before us.

So called Christian churches teaching universalism are temples of satan and the demons in them hate Jesus Christ and certainly do not believe He is Lord, God, that His blood is the only payment for Sin, believing in Him the only Way of Salvation.

These demons speak with forked tongues perhaps saying with one breath that Christ Jesus is Lord and then with another breath will say that all religions and all gods will lead to salvation.

The wolves in sheep's clothing at these churches, no matter how many good works are performed, no matter how much money they pass out to the world’s needy, no matter how loved they may be - they are doing the work of satan - they are liars who are keeping people from hearing the real truth that hell awaits all who have not put their faith, hope and trust ONLY in the Lord Jesus Christ, His blood, His death on the cross as payment/atonement for Sin.

Paperdoll, you are right, this is a very clear, purposeful
goal and false, blashemous religion being aggressively pushed during these last days by world leaders (who pretend to come in the named of Christ our Lord) that will walk the lost right into believing in the end times beast and one world apostate religion.

61 posted on 06/21/2007 6:48:52 AM PDT by Esther Ruth
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To: Paperdoll

Oops - meant to say #61 to you also, I agree with you.


62 posted on 06/21/2007 7:00:39 AM PDT by Esther Ruth
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To: Vanders9

One of the problems with liberalism, particularly social liberalism, is that it must contradict itself to survive. For example, to attempt to bring about the equality liberals so desire, they must place themselves in a position of superiority to everyone else.

Arguments for moral relativism are also contradictory. How can someone be telling us the truth when he says “There are no truths”?

This is why liberal “tolerance” so quickly leads to intolerance. A society that’s tolerant of everything can’t exist as a society. So “tolerance” of homosexuality means that people who wish to only provide dating services to heterosexuals through their matchmaking business can’t be tolerated. Tolerating abortion means that the unborn child can’t be tolerated. And so on.

And then there are the famous double standards. Liberal tolerance means that it’s intolerant to have a male-only school, and that it’s intolerant to object to a female-only school. If you produce a work of art mocking Islam, you’re intolerant. If you produce one mocking Christianity, then it’s the Christians who object who are intolerant.

Then there are the paradoxes. If the Bible is God’s Word, should we not obey it? Liberals then chime in and say, “But not everyone believes the Bible is God’s Word!” Then does that mean they think it’s just the writings and opinions of men? “Yes”. Okay, then how is that different from any secular opinion?

Suppose that two people announce that owning a dog is wrong and such ownership should be banned. One says he thinks dog ownership is wrong because of a religious revelation from a deity. The other says he thinks dog ownership is wrong because, well....because he just came to that conclusion on his own. Would it be okay to ban dog ownership based on the latter opinion but not the former? Either way the practical effects are the same: Dog ownership is banned.

Liberals, of course, try to get around this by claiming that their opinions are somehow arrived at scientifically or objectively, while religiously-driven opinions are irrational and subjective. Thus, it’s okay for them to forcibly ram their opinions down the throats of others, but not for Christians to do so. Of course, this is just nonsense.

Ask a liberal if it’s wrong to discriminate against homosexuals. When he says “yes”, ask him to prove it in a laboratory. When he has time to get the “deer caught in the headlights” expression off his face, point out to him that he just has a different set of subjective, totally illogical and unscientific values than those he alleges to you.

The best test of how true something is is by observing how well it works. Liberals effectively concede this point when they call themselves “progressives”. Liberalism must present itself this way because it can never be traditional, and that’s because it doesn’t work. You can’t build a great civilization on “values” such as egalitarianism, wealth redistribution, pacifism, sexual license, or secularism.

Liberals must present their ideas as being new because they have no track record to run on. They then compound the dishonesty by asserting that conservatives wish to legislate their values while they (liberals) do not, which is simply untrue. But by presenting it that way, dullards and imbeciles are lured in, thinking they’ll be more free and more liberated in a liberal society. But in reality, liberals merely have a different list of things they are intolerant of and wish to ban. And as Harvard President Larry Summers found out, they’re ruthless when it comes to enforcement.


63 posted on 06/21/2007 7:14:02 AM PDT by puroresu
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To: puroresu
Liberals think it’s okay to seek truth as long as you never find it.

Did you make that line up? That'd make a great tagline or bumper sticker!

64 posted on 06/21/2007 7:16:35 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: Tired of Taxes

I read it somewhere many years ago, but I can’t remember where or when. It is a great line, though, which is why I’ve always remembered it!


65 posted on 06/21/2007 7:21:32 AM PDT by puroresu
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions
Speaking of truth, meatball is the only acceptable pizza topping. Pepperoni, mushroom, sausage, and the like, are sins.

This doesn't even rise to the level of sophomoric.

66 posted on 06/21/2007 7:32:26 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Cannibalism? Molestation? Mass Murder?
Sometimes people’s minds are so open their brains fall out.


67 posted on 06/21/2007 7:34:35 AM PDT by steve8714 ("A man needs a maid", my ass.)
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To: puroresu
Liberals think it’s okay to seek truth as long as you never find it.

LOL!

68 posted on 06/21/2007 7:34:44 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: ClaireSolt
Today, for instance, Bush vetoed stem cell research on moral and ethical grounds. Hillary called that ideology, denying the quest for truth and asserting the subjective, instead.

Great example. I noticed that too. She's the true ideologue, since her ideology is more important to her than reality. But few viewers possess the intellectual tools necessary for evaluating her statement.

69 posted on 06/21/2007 7:37:55 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions
Anyone who puts meatball on pizza is clearly a heretic, and should be stoned!

We won't even discuss pineapple...
70 posted on 06/21/2007 7:38:45 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions

So, your facetious post boils down to your opinion that

there is NO OBJECTIVE TRUTH,

and the only “truth” is how you as an individual feel about a topic or issue.

This is exactly what this article is about. Modern secular progressives teach your opinion, and are seeking the destruction of our society through those teachings.


71 posted on 06/21/2007 7:39:19 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: durasell
The end result is pretty much the same. Stem cell research will continue.

On the plus side, fewer people will be killed.

72 posted on 06/21/2007 7:39:23 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: uptoolate

“Judge not, lest ye be judged”

Oh, how leftists LOVE this quotation. The REST of the passage says “and by the same measure”.

We must teach our children to make ACCURATE judgements, not to be “non-judgemental”.


73 posted on 06/21/2007 7:41:31 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions

1) it doesn’t take that long to study something until you understand it
2) it proves the divine origin of the bible
3) he uses more math to show that the arrival of Jesus was predicted in a like manner

The Koran among other “holy” books, is not like this.


74 posted on 06/21/2007 7:41:50 AM PDT by ROTB (Our Constitution...only for a [Christian] people...it is wholly inadequate for any other.-J.Q.Adams)
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To: Vanders9
Our modern society has raised tolerance to be the highest of all virtues.

Next time, ask him/her if our society should tolerate intolerance.

Then walk away.

75 posted on 06/21/2007 7:42:08 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: puroresu

“Liberals think it’s okay to seek truth as long as you never find it.”

I’m stealing it!

Yes, to my “liberal” mother in law, those who are most offensive are those that are firm in their beliefs.


76 posted on 06/21/2007 7:42:58 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
Then, for an example, I told her that Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me” and she was stunned. “HE SAID THAT???” She didn’t know that and was very surprised. I told her that you can’t be a Christian and believe that other religions are valid. You should have seen the lightbulbs go off in her head.

Excellent!

77 posted on 06/21/2007 7:45:24 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Aquinasfan

It is a wonderful teaching opportunity.


78 posted on 06/21/2007 7:46:01 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: uptoolate

“men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil”

That sounds like Someone is making a “judgement” there, right?

I ALWAYS complete the Biblical quote whenever I hear a lib say “judge not...”

“lest you be judged by the same measure”. I usually get a blank stare.


79 posted on 06/21/2007 7:48:21 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB

####I’m stealing it!####

That’s okay! I stole it, too. I just can’t remember from whom! LOL!


80 posted on 06/21/2007 8:23:52 AM PDT by puroresu
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To: Aquinasfan

Liberals also misrepresent the incident where Jesus saved the sinful woman from being stoned. They think that it shows Jesus to be “tolerant” of sinful lifestyles. In fact, it shows that Jesus was forgiving. Liberals always remember that He said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” to her accusers. But they forget that after He saved her, He instructed her to “sin no more”.


81 posted on 06/21/2007 8:32:46 AM PDT by puroresu
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To: puroresu
But they forget that after He saved her, He instructed her to “sin no more”.

Yeah, they skip that part, don't they?

82 posted on 06/21/2007 9:00:40 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: ROTB; Freedom_no_exceptions
For evidence for why Christianity alone says what happens thousands of years before it happens, please see http://www.direct.ca/trinity/y3nf.html. This is the signature of God.

If an error is found within that webpage's calculations, would you cease to be a Christian? When the US occupied Babylon (and, incidentally, caused irreparable damage to it), did that mean the Bible was wrong in Jeremiah, where it says Babylon wouldn't be occupied after it fell? (As a side note, I'm surprised that we didn't have DUmmies claiming that W invaded Iraq to prevent Saddam's redevelopment plans for the city, which would have contradicted the Bible!)

Other “religions” don’t do this. Not Islam [...]

Hey, how do you know the trees and rocks won't start talking?! ;-)

83 posted on 06/21/2007 9:07:16 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: puroresu

Leftists always use just parts of biblical quotes -

“Thou shalt not kill” obviously means that any military action by America is wrong if a Democrat is not president.

“Judge not” obviously means we are to tolerate every destructive and deviant behavior in our society. Similarly, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” means that since we are all imperfect, we cannot make judgements about others’ behavior.


84 posted on 06/21/2007 9:11:14 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB

Liberals make judgments all the time, they just call them something else.

The idea of never being judgmental is ludicrous on its face, and an impossibility in an actual, functioning society. However, a lot of people don’t wish to hear that. They like to feel “free” and “liberated”, and don’t like thinking they’re expected to conform to someone else’s values.

The fact is, every society on earth has value systems which people are expected, and even required, to follow. The only issue is which value system we’ll ascribe to. If it’s presented to people that way, it puts liberalism at a disadvantage because no positive case can be made for most of the things liberals support. Try to make a merit-based case for permitting homosexual bathhouses, for example. It ain’t gonna work.

So liberals have created the phony storyline that conservatives want to “impose their values on others” while liberals do not. This gets the debate off of the actual merits of any particular liberal idea, and onto an abstraction, namely whether or not we should “legislate morality”. This is why we get Orwellian newspeak terms such as “pro-choice” as an accepted part of our political lexicon.

Just using common sense one can see that liberals legislate their morality all the time. Every liberal economic initiative does this. Such proposals force people to give a portion of their own income to a cause they may not wish to support. That may be good or bad, depending on one’s OPINION, but it can’t be denied that it imposes the morality of some on others via the force of law.

Libertarians sometimes assert that liberals are for imposing their morality on others when it comes to economic matters, but not social matters. Conservatives are seen as the opposite, supporting economic freedom but not “social liberation”. That’s not true, either. Liberals DO NOT favor social liberty.

Take abortion as an example. Abortion isn’t a liberty as it would properly have been understood by, say, our Founding Fathers. It’s an ideological claim made against the life of someone else for reasons of personal gain. Again, one may be able to argue that it’s justified (though I don’t agree that it is), but one can’t deny that that’s what we’re dealing with. In addition, liberals have no problem forcing people who oppose abortion from being required to fund it via their tax dollars. They have no problem censoring photos or films of actual abortions taking place.

Homosexuality is another area where the left legislates its morality all the time. They’re for forcing landlords to rent to homosexuals even if the landlord considers such conduct a sin. They’re for “hate speech” laws to stifle public discourse on homosexual issues. They’re for using raw judicial power to crush public opinion and force an alteration of the multi-thousand year old institution of marriage. They even tried to force the Boy Scouts, a private organization, to send little boys on camping trips with homosexuals.

We live in a society where Politically Correct double standards are so commonplace that we hardly even notice them anymore. Conservatives, particularly Christian ones, are expected to achieve a near universal consensus on an issue before legislation can be enacted, but such rules are not required of liberals or secularists.

Why is it okay to ban theft? Isn’t that imposing morality? After all, the Bible says “thou shalt not steal”. Liberals will “explain” that it’s okay to ban (for example) bank robbery since nearly everyone agrees that it’s wrong. But we can’t ban abortion because not everyone agrees that it’s wrong, so we must respect “pluralism”. But do those same standards apply to secular liberals? Do secular liberals only seek to legislate their beliefs when there is near-universal agreement with them? Not at all. They feel perfectly justified in legislating their morality whether the people want it or not.

Can you imagine a liberal asserting that we can’t give state sanction to same-sex “marriage” unless and until there is near-universal demand for it? We can’t sanction such “marriages” unless, oh, ninety-seven percent or so of the public wants it to be sanctioned? Quite the contrary. The moment they decided that they wanted same-sex “marriage” to be legally sanctioned, they demanded that it be done immediately, public opinion be damned. If the people won’t sanction it, then damn it we’ll get judges to force it on them. And then we’ll haul any landlord who doesn’t want to rent to a homosexual couple into court. Our support for homosexuality trumps the landlord’s freedom of choice, his religious beliefs & liberties, and his property rights. And if the dating service E-HARMONY won’t provide same-sex match-ups, we’ll drag them into court and force them to do it. And if someone says homosexuality is a sin, or is unnatural, we’ll shut him down by threatening his job, or sending him off the rehab where he’ll be instructed in our way of thinking, or we’ll fine or imprison him for “hate speech”.

So much for liberalism being liberal, in the classic sense of the word.


85 posted on 06/21/2007 9:22:02 AM PDT by puroresu
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To: Nightshift; WKB; Sybeck1; pamlet; aumrl; mariabush; nmh; Ingtar; Blogger; Sweet Hour of Prayer; ...

Baptist Ping


86 posted on 06/21/2007 9:46:31 AM PDT by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: ClearCase_guy; Elsie
For me, caring about others means being judgmental and helping people get on to the right path, and telling them when they are on the wrong path.

How could caring about people NOT include warning them about the eternal consequences to their sin? Good grief. Don't offend them and watch them end up in hell? I don't think that's really very compassionate. Hell is forever. We are too worried about offending people.

87 posted on 06/21/2007 10:15:39 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

But, if you tell someone that their behavior is wrong, and that they face eternal damnation ... well, that could really ruin their morning. Can’t have that, can we?


88 posted on 06/21/2007 10:18:13 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: Mr. Silverback
We can’t stand idly by while relativism undermines the faith of our kids and robs them of the one sure hope they have—and desperately need. Friends, if this story gets to you like it gets to me, it’s time we got busy.

Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
89 posted on 06/21/2007 10:43:09 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Romans 10:9)
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles
As long as the kids themselves think Christianity is true what’s the problem? The Catholic Church used to teach that it was the ONE TRUE CHURCH. Well that offended a lot of people so it was changed to the Catholic Church teaches the FULLNESS OF TRUTH. That is, other religions have some truth but we have the most there is to be had. So the kids can just say Christianity contains the “fullness of truth.” If the kids are uncomfortable with that, then why the heck are they even Christians at all?

Couple of problems here. Christianity lives or dies on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christ, without qualification, told his followers to tell the world about Him. That includes identifying false religions for what they are.
90 posted on 06/21/2007 10:48:56 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Romans 10:9)
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To: uptoolate

BTW, I really like your tagline. Primarily because those same thoughts occur to me fairly frequently.


91 posted on 06/21/2007 10:52:53 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Romans 10:9)
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To: uptoolate; Freedom_no_exceptions
You are incapable of "accepting Jesus" until He calls for you.

I would add something to this. While only God can call on the hearts of men, the Bible also says 'knock, and it shall be opened to you.' If you wish to be called by God, simply ask Him. You might be surprised by the results.
92 posted on 06/21/2007 10:58:10 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Romans 10:9)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions
Maybe the kids are uncomfortable - as they should be - with Colson's implication that you can't be a good person unless you're Christian.

This illustrates one of the many disconnects between Christians and non-Christians. The non-Christian world classifies people as either good or bad. On the other hand, in the Bible God teaches that there really aren't any truly good people.
93 posted on 06/21/2007 11:04:32 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Romans 10:9)
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To: trisham
It was a Friday, and my choices were limited. It was interesting, but I didn't eat any leftovers the next morning.

Well, since it was friday you're ok. Fish on Friday, don't ya know...
94 posted on 06/21/2007 11:10:31 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Romans 10:9)
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To: tutstar; Nightshift; WKB; Sybeck1; pamlet; aumrl; mariabush; nmh; Ingtar; Blogger; ...
Thanks for the ping.

Postmodernism is creeping into everything.

A book I'm reading that I highly recommend is "Why We Should Judge" by Erwin Lutzer.

He comments in the book that it is better to argue with a modernist than a postmodernist because at least the modernist believes in absolute truth. The postmodernist only trusts feelings and everything is relative to the individual.

95 posted on 06/21/2007 11:22:21 AM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: puroresu

Your posts on this thread make a lot of sense. Secular humanism is a religion in and of itself.

But, I would like to add: The problem isn’t really secular vs. Christian. Moral relativism has infected the churches, too, as the article indicates.

I myself was accused of bigotry by a group of “Christians” when I (politely) stated that I opposed so-called “same-sex marriage”. And I’m not the religious one - I don’t belong to a church.

Secular humanism hasn’t just infected one denomination, either. This was an interdenominational Christian group with Methodists, Baptists, Catholics, etc. You’d think they’d all share some common ground. Well, they didn’t. But, they did agree in the end to draw up a “statement”. No, NOT a Statement of Faith but a Statement of DIVERSITY! :-0

Anyway, it dawned on me that I’m being too hard on myself - apparently, I know more about Christianity than a lot of Christians do. (Not here on FR, but in Real Life.) And, from what I’ve noticed, Christians lose their own moral compass when their faith depends on belief alone.

For example, this particular group would pray all the time for “things” to be delivered to them. They’d have collections for the poor. They’d make sweeping statements, such as, “We’re here to honor God.” They were always smiling and mentioning God. That seemed to be the extent of their “Christianity”. For the life of me, in two years with them, I couldn’t figure out what else they stood for. My kids were baffled, too.

There were many members of the group who agreed with me on marriage, but their loyalty was with the group because, after all, at least THEY all go to church and actively pray. Believe in WHAT and pray to WHOM is what I’d like to know.

Yeah. We’ll be checking out another church I found soon.


96 posted on 06/21/2007 11:50:44 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

And that’s EXACTLY the same way that Satan uses Scripture!!


97 posted on 06/21/2007 12:18:24 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
If someone stabs another person, and that person dies, it is murder. That is the TRUTH.

Oh?

Not if the stabee was engaged in some activity that it was perfectly legal to be on the receiving end of a pointy object!

98 posted on 06/21/2007 12:20:39 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: luckystarmom
What does it mean to not be under the law?

It means that if you are a resident of Dallas, the speed limits set in Denver do not have anything to do with how fast you drive from home to Fort Worth!

99 posted on 06/21/2007 12:25:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: uptoolate
Most people read Mt 7 and just get as far as “Judge not, lest ye be judged” ...

Most people spout “Judge not, lest ye be judged” because they do not want what they are doing to come under condemnation!

100 posted on 06/21/2007 12:27:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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