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To: RightWhale; betty boop; xzins; .30Carbine; hosepipe
What do you make of John 5:30?

Thank you so much for asking, RightWhale!

First, in context with verse 30 emphasized:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. - John 5:24-30

My favorite passage which makes this same point (emphasis mine):

Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; - Hebrews 1:3

Jesus is the brightness of the Father's glory.

He is the express image of the Father's Person.

There is no “bright red line” between the Father and the Son. The Father’s will is the Son’s will.

And so it is with us Christians:

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven. – Matt 6:9-10

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. – John 15:1-5

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Col 3:3

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. – Romans 8:9

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. – John 17:20-23


484 posted on 07/02/2007 9:26:59 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Not to get too excited and spew scripture, which does little but obscure the point of interest in scenery (context of zero relevance) of undeterminate form and color, but the statement in John 5:30 is also made elsewhere and ought to stop most people short and make them wonder why they imagine they can actually do anything themselves such as think and reason. The same idea appears in Plotinus, roughtly the same time period although he wasn’t Christian per se, and Leibniz who continues to be either ignored or misread. It has to do with free will. They even had a word for it, volle, and a word for this new claustral thing, nolle. Seems they knew about it 2000 years ago and chemical neuroscience has merely found the particular brain structure where it happens. Also William Law spoke of this at length and Jacob Boehme. Maybe Boehme can be dismissed as a neo-gnostic, but Law has yet to be topped for preaching his point. Freud had a clue also but did not deliver anything but some odd analogy.

I will have to see if Thomas ‘streetwise’ Aquinas had anything to say on this.


489 posted on 07/02/2007 9:40:57 AM PDT by RightWhale (It's Brecht's donkey, not mine)
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