Posted on 07/11/2007 7:55:07 PM PDT by TavoNYC
“I would not start a sentence that states that people are dying in the desert with the word “funny”. Maybe that’s just me.”
In Webster’s dictionary, here is the definition of the word ‘funny’:
funny[1,adjective]funny[2,noun]funny bonefunny bookfunny carfunny farmfunny moneyfunny paper
Main Entry: 1fun·ny
Pronunciation: ‘f&-nE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): fun·ni·er; -est
1 a : affording light mirth and laughter : AMUSING b : seeking or intended to amuse : FACETIOUS
2 : differing from the ordinary in a suspicious, perplexing, quaint, or eccentric way : PECULIAR — often used as a sentence modifier ‘funny, things didn’t turn out the way we planned’
3 : involving trickery or deception ‘told his prisoner not to try anything funny’
Please read #2. I feel certain that the word funny used by the poster did not mean silly, or hysterical, or causing one to laugh. I bet the poster meant ‘perplexing’. (I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I am wrong.)
You consider my conduct rude. I beg to differ (see below). In any event, my post was dealing with something that in my mind goes beyond garden variety rudeness and is closer to xenophobia. It doesn’t really affect me and it says more about the person who insulted us than about us, but I think this type of climate is not fostering open and honest debate of what clearly is a controversial issue.
My observation is that the vast majority (and I really mean like 99%) of people of any culture when immersed in a different culture/language, will speak their native tongue among their kin.
I know dozens of Americans and Europeans living in Mexico and I can tell you this is true for them too.
And it has absolutely nothing to do with being rude. Your native tongue is tightly hardwired to your brain and, no matter how fluent you become in a foreign language, it will almost always seem less natural than speaking your mother tongue. This is especially true about intimate or family related situations: you’ve learned how to relate to your family in your native language from a very early age. The right words or expressions often won’t come easily to you in a foreign language. The funny thing is I find that the opposite can be true for me when I am dealing with a technical discussion: it may often be easier for me to have this discussion in English, because I’ve made most of my professional career in the US and don’t have the right technical vocabulary in Spanish.
Besides, I disagree that most people would consider it rude for people to have a private family conversation in their own language. I certainly have not felt offended by this type of behavior when Americans do it abroad. Think about it: would you scold your children in Spanish just because you’re living in Mexico. Based on my experience I can almost guarantee you would not.
I am not dealing with the case in which people will speak in a foreign language in front of someone they know and might have an interest in their conversation but who doesn’t speak their language. I would absolutely agree that this is rude. I usually go to great pains to avoid this. In fact, I’ll often translate what I’m saying if I’m talking in Spanish with someone who doesn’t speak English, but there’s an English-only speaking acquaintance present.
Now, I will often make a conscious effort to speak to my children in English. This is more to ensure that they’ll learn the language than for any other purpose. I have to say that when I do this, I often feel frustrated by the fact that no matter how much I try I cannot achieve the natural flow of speech, intonation and pronunciation of a native speaker, and often fear that I am “teaching my children wrong”. The more years I spend in this country, I find myself relying more on English (and sometimes, not many) even find myself struggling to find a word when talking in Spanish. I now often count, dream or think in English. These cognitive activities are often the most difficult ones to master in a foreign language.
I suspect you are right. I have to admit I didn’t really think the poster had meant it any differently and perhaps this was a cheap trick on my part. Mea culpa.
Oh, I can understand there’s anger and I can see that indeed there is... But is strongly suspect the level of passion that you see here can only be stirred up by fear. The frequent use of words and expressions on these threads such asa “I fear for the future of the USA”, etc. only confirm this suspicion.
And may I point out that you are mixing the issues in your post: the fact that the females you refer to are “Spanish speaking” should not be relevant. In any event the relevant point should be if they are here legally or ilegally. The second question is whether people are really making child bearing decisions in order to obtain immigration benefits. As I’ve said it before, I doubt it. I guess I could be wrong as I can’t possibly now their motives.
“US tax payers footing the bill for him and his 35 cousins here illegally... AND their anchor babies.”
Now, where in the world do you get this from? I clearly don’t appreciate the poetic license you take in hurling innuendo at me or my family (and no, I don’t think you literally believe that I have 35 cousins, you only used the expression because it better fits your idea of a “third world family”).
This is getting a bit old, but I’ll state it once more: I am here legally and have no relatives that are here illegally. In fact, other than my wife and children, only my brother lives here under a work visa. Also, US tax payers are footing no bills for me or my family and for all I know I may be footing your bills with my taxes given the amount of taxes I have to pay on inflated New York compensation (which probably buys me a lifestyle similar to yours but that’s a different topic).
And this post is not about “me”. I’ve said it elsewhere, but the insult I described offended me for all of 5 minutes. Now it mostly amuses me. The point I am trying to make (and let he who has ears hear), is that a climate that leads to a stranger gratituously insulting someone and their children on the street, is not conducive to open and honest debate about this issue. This, I believe, is everybody’s loss. Let’s tone it down, will you?
Thanks for the polite message and the suggestion. As you can tell, I have “learned and use” English and have actually become pretty proficient in it. Please look at my post above, in which I attempt to explain why most people living in a foreign country will continue to use their native tongue in a family setting.
Actually, physicians in Mexico don’t make nearly as much money as their counterparts in the US do. I included this remark because I wanted to stress that my family’s income does not come from political connections or corruption...
No doubt my late grandfather, a legal immigrant, would be quite furious about this.
Oh, I’m home, thanks...
Funny how you scanned my post for a phrase that you resent (and misinterpret) and then claim that it is “the crux” of my post.
In fact, the observation you point to was quite peripheral to my post. I only wrote it to provide some context as to what my cultural background is (which while not relevant to how Americans might view the episode I described, it is inevitably relevant to how I perceived it). I would not anticipate non-Mexicans living outside of Mexico to act within the confines of Mexican culture. That would be totally absurd! And I don’t recall ever demading documents and communication in Spanish. What I described was a private casual family conversation, not official business or work.
And where in my post did I ever claim or imply that my culture was more civilized than American culture?? That was purely your interpretation and if you read my post carefully will realize I never claimed this.
Am I from a priviledged minority in Mexico? Perhaps. But that doesn’t preclude me from recognizing that Mexican society has its dark spots along with some very bright ones. Derisive comments about a country you probably barely know don’t strike me as the gold standard of objectivity.
The CLIMATE is this nation is being swarmed by illegals and the laws not being obeyed (by both the illegals and authorities) has put a huge pucker (like a big suck on a slice of lemon) in most Americans mouth, I notwithstanding...
If you can't understand this, perhaps it is because you don't have one of the above that died for this country's freedoms and not to have it pissed away by those that value votes and cheap labor more than it's citizens. Your children are rightfully and truthfully "Anchor Babies" and you proudly flaunt the multi-citizenships they have. Speaking a foreign language in public just rubs salt in most of ours eyes and by now you probable know that is about as rude as typing in all caps on a forum.
Now on the downside, I must admit that lawful immigrants (and there is far too many from just Mexico) do not benefit from the wrath most Americans feel for illegals. My town in the last 5 years has dramatically increased populations of Hispanic people.. and there is NO way that many visa could of been granted. A neighboring town has in 10 years gone from nearly 2% minority to a whooping over 50% Hispanic population...
Paul wrote my tagline... sometimes you got to abhor evil even if it offends others... If your offended by the truth.. so be it. Your kids are anchor babies...
The only thing I can say about that lady is she judged from appearances only. She had no real way to know what generation you were in America other that by the clues you offered of speaking a foreign language.
First, let me state that you are right to assume that none of my kin or ancestors have died defending this country. I can understand how this is a heritage that you would treasure and that it would definitely inform your views. I just want you to know that I respect that.
Second, I cannot really fault you for quoting from the Bible (I did so myself as you know). However, you have to agree that using the word “evil” in this situation is completely misplaced. Let’s not talk about the larger issue of illegal immigrants. Why would the word “evil” apply to my family’s situation? My wife and I are lawful permanent residents, we pay our taxes, comply with the laws and have formed a family. Where do you see evil here? I have to believe you didn’t mean this.
Third, OK, you confidently state (like a couple of other posters have) that my children are “anchor babies”. How so? As far as I understand the concept, an anchor baby is: i) the child of an illegal immigrant, ii) born in the US for the purpose of gaining immigration or other rights for their parents. My children do not fulfill either criteria, being the daughters of legal permanent residents, and given that I in no way will benefit from their US citizenship status (I already have a green card, and in terms of social security and medicare, I qualify for both on my own based on the 10 years of maxed out social security contributions I’ve accrued to date)...
Could it be that you are among the small minority of people who take the “anchor baby” concept to its extreme and claim that only children of US citizens should be granted US citizenship? I suspect so. If this is the case, I would just like to remind you (and this is factual so you’ll have to agree) that the prevailing and well established legal truth -whether you agree with this or not- is that my children are US Citizens just like you and, as I’ve pointed out elsewhere, this is unlikely to change ever... I’ve read on this thread what the argument is for interpreting the Constitution to mean that children of illegal immigrants should not be US citizens (as I understand it, it hinges on whether an illegal immigrant can be interpreted to be “under the jurisdiction” of the US). I am curious as to what the legal argument might be to also exclude children of LEGAL immigrants. I am most assuredly squarely under the jurisdiction of the US (hey, if I weren’t, as I would’ve saved hundreds of thousands in taxes). What could the argument be to interpret the consitution as excluding my children from American citizenship... With all due respect, I think that if you really hold this belief, you are in need of a serious reality check: do you believe there is even the slightest chance that congress -requiring a constitutional amendment- or the courts would ever change this status quo? Even a consitutional amendment would not apply retroactively, so you would only preclude newly born children in these circumstances from acquiring US citizenship, but children like my daughters would be grandfathered under this (already unlikely) scenario.
It would be incredibly presumptuous on my part to state whose freedoms would a brave man like Pfc. Millard Harrison Stout thought so precious that they were worth giving his life for. I would like to believe, though, that these included the rights and freedoms of rightful US citizens like my daughters. Please don’t be offended by this statement. I mean it with the utmost respect. I know that I certainly did nothing to deserve this sacrifice, and as a non-US citizen I can probably barely understand it and appreciate it. What I can do, and you can be sure I will do, is teach my daughters to love and respect the country where they were born, one that could spawn such heroism.
"Ny wife and I are Mexican citizens. . ."
Oil is sometimes used in the Bible as a metaphor for the Holy Spirit. Does a Christian really want to be “low” on that?
And of course, pay taxes there.
Horsecrap! Yours was a carefully worded condemnation of the gringo. To try to convince otherwise would be pointless.
Am I from a priviledged minority in Mexico? Perhaps. But that doesn’t preclude me from recognizing that Mexican society has its dark spots along with some very bright ones.
What bright ones? Seriously, give me a list.
Derisive comments about a country you probably barely know don’t strike me as the gold standard of objectivity.
You're right. I never said I was objective about the stinkpot called 'mexico'.
For someone who claims his children aren't anchor babies you sure do put up a fight about it.
A compromise, Tavo. While you're in this country, you speak the prevailing language exclusively and teach your children American culture, American history, English language and nothing whatsoever of that corrupt hellhole called Mexico.
Deal? No? Then, go home and abdicate the job you wrongfully have to an American working to support his family.
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