My anchor babies

07/11/07 | TavoNYC

[TavoNYC]

Yesterday my wife, my brother and I decided to go to the city (Manhattan -we live in the New Jersey suburbs-) with our two daughters. As we were joyfully strolling down Broadway minding our own business and talking among us (in Spanish, of course, which I'm sure you'll understand is perfectly normal behavior for native speakers of any language when they speak among each other regardless of what country they happen to be in -Americans living in Mexico or France speak English among themselves as they are perfectly entitled to do-), when out of the blue a woman turned to us as we walked pass her and sarcastically referred to my daughters (6 months old and 6 years old) as "anchor babies".

Ny wife and I are Mexican citizens (from Morelia). We came to the New York metro region under a work visa, we've lived here for 10 years and are now US permanent residents. I work in investment banking for a bulge bracket US firm. Needless to say (and yet, here I am feeling compelled to state it) we are law abiding citizens that have paid literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes in the past ten years. Needless to say as well, my current and future immigration status have nothing to do with the fact that my daughter's were born here and (will) have dual citizenship.

I am normally pretty hard skinned, but I have to confess that this made me quite angry. I blurted out a profanity (which of course got me in trouble with my wife for using such language in front of the kids) and told my wife and brother what the woman had just said -apparently I was the only one who actually heard her and in fact, I had to explain what the term "anchor baby" meant as neither my brother nor my wife had heard it-. They were much cooler about it than I was. My 25 year old brother laughed it off: "does she realize where she is?" (New York City, where 40% of the population is foreign born), "I guess she must go around saying this to every other person she meets on the street... I know she'd have to call this to the kids of most of my colleagues on the trading floor".

Am I being overly sensitive about this? I don't think so. Anchor baby is obviously a loaded term. In my culture it's considered impolite to even refer to someone as "he" or "she" instead of by his/her name if that person is present (mothers will correct this with a stern: "el/ella tiene su nombre" ("he/she has a name"). So, I find it beyond rude to refer to a stranger's kid by a label, even if it were a less emotionally loaded one (think about it: how would you feel if a stranger refer to your kids as "child tax credit babies" or something like that?) Calling someone's kids "anchor babies" seems almost unfathomable. (Think of the inherent chauvinism/xenophobia in assuming that because we are speaking a foreign language and look non-American we: a) are here illegally, b) had our babies in the US in order to one day get American citizenship ourselves and live-off the generosity of American tax payers).

I'm not even dealing with politics here, but with mere politeness. What drives an apparently otherwise normal person (I wish I could report that our harraser was an obviously fringe character or displayed obvious signs of ignorance and unsophistication, in fact, she seemed like an average New Yorker) to harrass a person she doesn't know like this? I agree that American style political correctness can at times be almost grotesquely funny, but I much prefer it to insensitive name calling and labelling. Labelling is oftentimes the first step in dehumanizing the "other", which is a dangerous slippery slope (Milgram, the psychologist, in a lesser known variation of his famous -or infamous- experiment, showed that people were much more likely to voluntarily harm a stranger that had done no harm to them if they "accidentally" overheard the researcher using a derisive label in referring to the stranger). I obviously don't want to take this argument too far. I think I am already giving way too much importance to the hateful words of a random stranger as it stands. However, I do think both sides of the immigration debate need to tone down the rethoric. There are clearly valid arguments on both sides, but labelling and name calling are utterly unhelpful and will only lead to further polarization.

As an aside, I think the concept of anchor babies is largely a myth. First of all, having an American baby will not necessarily save an illegal alien from deportation, as it has been clearly established by well publicized cases. Second, an anchor baby cannot really apply for a green card for his/her parents until after he/she is 18. After that, there's usually a long wait of several years before parents can get permanent residence. Finally, having an "anchor baby" does not give the parent rights to receive social security payments, etc. I really don't think that illegal aliens that are having babies in the US are doing so in order to get a green card 30 years down the road. There are other myths that are used by both sides in this debate (another one that comes to mind is that illegal immigrants are draining social security funds, when in fact, it's well documented that the social security administration records a significant amount of social security contributions that were made under a false SSN and therefore cannot be claimed by the people who made such contributions, so illegal immigrants are in fact subsidizing social security). Well, I said I did not want to get into politics. Besides, it's unfair because I'm only giving one side of the argument here. As I've said, there are valid arguments to both sides. I'm all for fair and objective debate of these arguments, but ad hominem attacks and labelling are clearly not constructive.

I realize that in the big scheme of things, these woman's comment is not a big deal. As I said, I'm usually pretty hard skinned, but perhaps the fact that this involved my kids (however tangentially) made me react strongly to this person's insensitivity and prejudice. I too have wondered whether there were other factors that drove this person to act the way she did. I don't tend to divide the world into demons and angels, and know full well that the capacity for evil resides within each of us (I recently read the Lucifer Effect, which deals with this subject). If anything, I blame the rethorical excesses involved in the current immigration debate. I happen to notice the excesses incurred by one of the sides in the debate, simply because I'm much more attuned to the arguments of the other side, but I'm sure both sides engage in this to some degree.

Finally, let me clarify that my rant is in no way intended as an indictment of an entire country. In all fairness I have to say that this is the first time in my 10 years in this country that I've directly experienced something close to xenophobia. I consider myself a New Yorker (after 10 years here you'd expect that) and have many good friends in this city and this country. I also realize that prejudice is, alas, prevalent among different cultures. I've traveled extensively for work and pleasure and have lived and worked in three countries and two continents. I have very good friends in each of those countries. I have encountered many examples of garden-variety rudeness, but fortunately have not personally often seen the ugly face of overt prejudice.

I apologize for the rant. I feel better already.

Thanks,

[TavoNYC]

As a matter of fact I am doing something to make my country better. Over the past 5 years I’ve invested capital in my country.

The truth of the matter is that I live here and have lived here for the past 10 years, so this is my home. I am here legally... Is going back to Mexico in the cards at some point? Probably. In fact, I just received a job offer there that would entail almost doubling what I make here. My wife is dying to go to be near her family. So, who knows... your wishes may come true. What I don’t understand is why should you have this sentiment towards me. Do you have anything against a legal permanent resident going peacefully and responsibly about this business in this country? I frankly don’t understand...

I never said I don’t like the way I am treated in the US. In my profession, where I live and the people I interact with day to day, I have seen nothing but respect, civility and friendliness. I have absolutely no complaints about this, which for me is the real America.

What the woman said to us on the street and what some obfuscated folk write when they have too much spare time in a FR thread, frankly is not the real America and doesn’t really affect me or my family personally. The reason I’m posting here and replying to even the most insulting posts is that I believe in open debate, not in personal attacks. And I think that sadly, many have completely substituted one for the other.

Cheers,

[raybbr]

Thanks for the reply. I was going to compose something similar but you did a fine job.

Let me add a little to Tavo:

- Ancient civilization, incredible cultural richness. Mexico City was the largest city in America at a time when cities like Boston or New York did not even exist.

Yup. And human sacrifice was the norm.

- Emerging democracy.

It's been "emerging" for centuries and they have gotten nowhere. Never happen. The oligarchy has been fighting with the socialists for decades.

- Dynamic economy. Mexican economy is growing faster than the US economy (starting off a much lower base, of course), and has shown significant dynamism in the last decade or so.

So what? If it's such great and growing economy with so many opportunities why are you here?

- Growing conscience of its own shortcomings and strengths.

By whom? You? Go back and help your country fix themselves. Again, you have fled the country. Why?

[raybbr]

As a matter of fact I am doing something to make my country better. Over the past 5 years I’ve invested capital in my country.

Money you have earned here. You don't even see the hypocrisy of your statements.

[raybbr]

If you can't understand this, perhaps it is because you don't have one of the above (picture of an American Serviceman) that died for this country's freedoms and not to have it pissed away by those that value votes and cheap labor more than it's citizens.

Another great point! U.S. soldiers didn't die all around the world to give mexicans rights in the U.S. They died fighting for freedom. The freedom for all citizens in their own countries.

When will we see mexicans fight around the world for the freedom of others? When will we even see mexicans fight for freedom in their own country?

[TavoNYC]

“Money you have earned here.”

The key word here is earned. It’s my mony to spend or invest or do whatever I please with.

[raybbr]

“Money you have earned here.” The key word here is earned. It’s my mony to spend or invest or do whatever I please with.

That's right. You earn money off the backs of Americans and send it "home" to mexico. How are you any different than the millions of illegals that do the same thing?

[zeugma]

Why is that your sentiment, may I ask?
Do you have an issue with legal immigrants?

From time to time, The U.S. goes through periods of high immigration, followed by stretches where not as many immigrants were let in to give the previous wave a chance to assimilate.

Seems to me that we've let unrestricted immigration go on too long. Time for a breather.

 

[zeugma]

I disagree. After all, we are in the US. If anybody has failed to “enforce the rule of law” has been US authorities. Let me remind you that illegal aliens have not broken any Mexican laws (any Mexican citizen is free to go out of the country as he/she pleases).

While I agree that the lack of action on the part of those charged with enforcing immigration into this country have been criminal, you're off your nut if you think that because the illegals haven't broken any mexican law, that they aren't criminals by breaking ours. Is that attitude why mexicans think they can murder in this country with impunity? 

 I have invested and being doing business in Mexico for the past 5 years or so. Construction business. We deal with government authorizations and licenses all the time. I can say, that I have never had to pay a bribe.

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that.  

It is well known that justice is for sale in mexico. Your claim that it is not doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I had to object and told him that I have never paid a bribe to a policeman in Mexico (or elsewhere for that matter). True this may mean you’ll lose a full morning, but bribing is definetely not compulsory and is not as pervasive as some people think.

So, if your time is worth nothing, you don't have to pay a bribe, but if it is valuable to you, you do. Yet you think it's not pervasive?

I don't really see the point in continuing this discussion because I'm not even slightly convinced you are  a mexican national.

Have fun trolling FR.

 

[William Terrell]

If you are a citizen of Mexico, you owe allegiance to Mexico. Permanent resident means you will work here, reside here, still owing allegiance to Mexico. I presume you are here by virtue of a H1B visa. I have a problem with this.

The software development is "suffering a shortage", too, and this is not true; that is my field. Offshore personnel are being hired because they are cheaper, and vast numbers of American programmers are out of work. Trust me, there will be no shortage of American to do whatever you do.

Globalization is exacting a huge toll in American prosperity. You, however small, are playing a part in it.

I am not a globalist. I do not get used to it. And there is a war coming because European type, especially American types are not, and never have been, tame.

I am a libertarian, except for open borders, Balkanizing America with multiple cultures, and prosecuting a war. You fit into the middle one.

If you are in America you speak English. If you have anchor babies, you teach the American history, values and principles. I most definitely have business demanding this, because I'm on my own soil and I'm an American citizen.

I reject any notion that children of foreign nationals born here assume citizenship. And I will fight that notion to my last drop of blood.

We will see. Now, do, please, go home, where you are a citizen and owe allegiance.

Thank you in advance.

[TavoNYC]

“That’s right. You earn money off the backs of Americans and send it “home” to mexico. How are you any different than the millions of illegals that do the same thing?”

I applaud you for coming clean as a xenophobe. It is clear from your post that you don’t care about the rule of law. You see no difference in the fact that I am here legally and earning my money legally. The only thing you see, it would seem, is that I am a foreigner and how dare I make a living in the United States?

As I said, at least you’ve come clean. I clearly and strongly disagree with you, but at least you’re not pretending your issue to be about illegal immigrants, you’re just against any foreigners in the US.

[TavoNYC]

1. “...you’re off your nut if you think that because the illegals haven’t broken any mexican law, that they aren’t criminals by breaking ours.”

That’s not what I said. Let me remind you what you wrote in the post I was replying to:

“This boils down to a basic cultural problem. Because of the endemic culture of corruption in mexico, they have no respect for the laws either of their home country or U.S. law.”

I was simply pointing out to you that your neat (some would say simplistic) reduction of the problem to a “basic cultural problem” of “endemic corruption in Mexico” does not stand on its own. You’re saying: these guys have no respect for the laws of their own country, how could they respect the laws of the US. I’m simply replying: these guys have broken no laws in Mexico in coming here, the US is not enforcing its laws in its territory, why do you expect the Mexican government to enforce US law in their territory?

2. “Is that attitude why mexicans think they can murder in this country with impunity?”
This is just not a serious statement. That’s the problem for getting your facts from talk radio shows. In fact, studies that have looked at actual police records have for the most part shown the surprising finding that rates of violent crime among immigrants (no studies exist that I know that distinguish crime by illegal and legal immigrants) is actually lower than the crime rate for the native-born population of similar income levels, age and gender profile. Clearly the data does not support your perception of violent immigrants... But let’s assume for a moment that the numbers thrown out by some people on your side of the debate are correct (I saw these numbers in one of the posts on this thread above). If these numbers were true the homicide rate among illegal immigrants would be around 0.02%, which means that it would still be pretty hard to find a murderer among a random group of illegal immigrants. So, either way, your statement that “Mexicans think they can murder... with impunity” is a gross mistatement of the facts and a totally unwarranted generalization.

But of course, you probably don’t care about debating facts...

3. “I’m sorry, but I just don’t believe that. It is well known that justice is for sale in mexico. Your claim that it is not doesn’t change the reality of the situation.”

Does corruption exist in Mexico? I’m sure it does. In fact, I know it does (I have received hints that a bribe might help solve an issue, I just have never given in to these hints and so far it hasn’t affected my ability to operate and make money in Mexico). Does corruption permeate every layer of Mexican society? My direct experience living in Mexico for 27 years and then doing business in Mexico for over 5 years says it doesn’t. I think I’m in a much better position to opine about this than you are. Certainly my experience and my claims don’t alter the reality, but your claims are even less relevant to the reality in my country.

4. “So, if your time is worth nothing, you don’t have to pay a bribe, but if it is valuable to you, you do. Yet you think it’s not pervasive?”

I view it more as: if your time is worth more to you than your integrity then you pay a bribe. This is not true for me and for a growing number of Mexicans (I learned this from my father). As I’ve said. I have never paid a bribe in Mexico (or elsewhere) and I don’t intend to.

5. “I don’t really see the point in continuing this discussion because I’m not even slightly convinced you are a mexican national.”

As you wish. Why would you doubt I’m a Mexican national? (the only reason I can think of is that my profile does not correspond to your preconceptions of Mexicans -or am I wrong?). I don’t know what strange motivation I could have to pass myself for a Mexican national if I’m not one, but there’s not much point in my trying to prove otherwise (I’m not even sure how I would prove it, short of sending you a copy of my passport, which I must assuredly won’t do after witnessing the rabidness of some of the opinions expressed by posters on this thread). In the end, you’ll believe what you want to believe. Eso no quita que soy mas Mexicano que el mole. (translation -lest you be offended by my using a foreing language-: this does not detract from the fact that I am more Mexican than “mole” sauce).

Cheers,

[TavoNYC]

Hi,
Thanks again for this message. I would appreciate your responding to my post 354. I would really like to know how you think that the word “evil” applies to me and my family.

Also, it seems that you are a born again Christian. I am one too. Did you read my tagline? What do you think it?
God Bless

[TavoNYC]

“Here is one I would like to see... Law abiding... and according to my link above, illegals average around 4 or more arrests within 10 years.”

Let’s be serious. Even if we were to believe the sources you give (politicians involved on your side of the debate, which doesn’t strike me as an objective source), the link you provided claims that the INCARCERATED POPULATION of aliens averages 4 or more arrests within 10 years. How many arrests do you think that the INCARCERATED POPULATION of native-born Americans averages? Give me a break! Let’s not be gullible and just regurgitate any soundbite that we hear on talk show radio!

I’ll answer to the other points on your post at a later time.

[r9etb]

Exactly what is your agenda on this forum? Just curious.

Well, for one thing, he's smoked out some serious a$$holes. No surprise, but it's always refreshing when they show their stripes to any and all.

[TavoNYC]

1. “I presume you are here by virtue of a H1B visa. I have a problem with this.”

Ok. It is one thing to take issue with the US immigration policies and believe that legal immigration should be curbed. You have a right to believe this and I have the right to disagree. It’s a totally different thing to take that one step further and then take issue with me and my family personally. After all, we are following the rules. You may not like the rules and you may even vocally demand that they be changed. You’re entitled to express this opinion even militantly if you so wish. But telling someone who is here legally to leave strikes me as... unreasonable, rude and unwarranted. Plus it’s also completely unproductive, because given that I have every legal right to be here, your telling me to leave will change nothing and do any of us no good.

Cheers,

[RebekahT]

So how did anyone ever become an American??

You are an American because your ancestors EMIGRATED to this country. As a fellow American and Southerner, you are embarrassing me by the way you are treating the author of this thread. Your post was one of the most astonishing and offensive things that I have ever read on FR.

[TavoNYC]

A valid position, I guess, although one that I vehemently disagree with. But you are entitled to your opinion.

However, while I think you have a right to be in favor of curbing legal immigration in its current form, I don’t see why that makes it ok for you to tell me and my family to “go home”...

As I’ve said. This is my home. I live and work here. And I do it legally. I don’t see why you should have an issue with that.

[LowOiL]

I would appreciate your responding to my post 354. I would really like to know how you think that the word “evil” applies to me and my family.

Sorry about not responding sooner, but I work long hours and have to hand pick posts to respond to with what free time is given.

First off, I understand where you perhaps got the jist of me saying your family was evil, but in reference to my post, I was calling illegal immigrants evil (see the paragraph above where I was talking about the population boom of Hispanics in our town and neighbors town)... I unfortunately tied the "evil" comment into the same paragraph where I said your child is an "anchor child", but I was talking about illegals only. Your child is an "anchor child" but as a child he/she is blameless. "Anchor child" to me is a child born in this country that has parents that are not US citizens. You may have permits etc.. but you boost your citizenship to Mexico. I don't think your allegiance is to Mexico, but also I don't think your heart is here either. One might believe your allegiance is to money or the best job, but perhaps it is just to better your family, only you know the truth.

Also, it seems that you are a born again Christian. I am one too. Did you read my tagline? What do you think it? God Bless

No I didn't read your tagline until just now, and to be honest I haven't read this whole thread (again time is short).

Here is what I think of your tagline. I think any quote from the Bible is great. But to take things out of context is not great. To add to the truth is to subtract from it. The Bible clearly says to obey the laws of a nation. If a person as yourself has entered by the correct doors, your tagline is fitting, but I have clearly stated the brunt of my argument on just two things... illegal immigrants (and there is too much legal immigration from Mexico instead of allowing other countries a shot) and that your child is an "anchor child" thus the lady was correct (notwithstanding the fact that she judged only by appearances, which is wrong). We will not get into the "turn the other cheek" (on an insult only, you are not to turn the other cheek on a direct assault, women being raped are not required to give the rapist double time) on your responses.

Biblically on illegals it can be summed up with "John 10:1 -- He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold but climbeth up another way, the same is a thief and a robber".

Or I like how Pilgrim's Progress worded it... (excerpt below)

We were born in the Land of Emptiness, and we're on our way to the Heavenly City," they replied.
"Then why did you jump over the wall, instead of coming through the little wooden gate? Don't you know that anyone who climbs in a different way is a thief?"

"It's a long way to the wooden gate," answered Mr. On-the-Surface. "Our people always take this short-cut. They've done it for hundreds of years, so it can't be wrong."
"But it's against the rules."
"It doesn't matter how we got in," said the men. "If we're in, we're in."
"I walk by the Master's rules; you go your own way," said Christian.

Of course this is common sense... if you were to play the Jesus supports breaking laws game.. we both could play it..

Whose wages would Jesus decimate? In 1980, according to the Department of Labor, a meat packer could expect to make $19 an hour. Today the going wage is less than $10. Across the board, American wages are lowered by as much as $200 billion dollars by illegal aliens.

How many false Social Security numbers would Jesus use?

So, how many hospitals would Jesus close?

When we reward lawbreaking on the part of illegals and the businesses that hire them we penalize businesses, workers and legal immigrants that follow the law. Aren’t they our neighbors too? Is shafting them the Christian thing to do? Is the cause of justice served by letting Mexico’s fatcats export their poor to the U.S. instead of enacting reforms at home?

Again Paul wrote of my tagline..."Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9)

You may not like my positions whatsoever... but I ain't worried about you... because I know what happens when I support those that blatantly thumb their noses at America's laws.

"Why do you help wicked people and love those who hate the LORD? The LORD's anger is directed toward you because you have done this. 2 Chronicles 19:2

* The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance... So that men will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous; Surely He is God who judges in the earth." Ps. 58:10-11

You call entering this country illegally a "misdemeanor" and basically nothing serious.

* Let grace be shown to the wicked, yet he will not learn righteousness... Isa. 26:10

* For [the governing authority] is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Rom. 13:4

* A man of great wrath will suffer punishment; for if you rescue him, you will have to do it again. Prov. 19:19

Wonder why I am bitter?

Without the law, lawlessness cannot exist. Yet as Christ said, "because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold" (Mat. 24:12). Christ will throw "those who practice lawlessness... into the furnace of fire" (Mat. 13:41-42).

What would a true Christian illegal do?

* "Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny. Mat. 5:25-26

Jesus did not tell the judge or the officer to turn the other cheek or to void the law. God wants the governing authorities to uphold the law without mercy (Heb. 10:28; Rom. 13:3-4).

Did I respond enough for ya...

[LowOiL]

Let’s be serious.

Yes, lets be serious. You are so blinded that you can't see that the very first thing illegals do is BREAK THE LAW when they enter America. If you can't be more honest in your discussions, then perhaps you have reaped what you sowed in this thread.

[LowOiL]

I have invested and being doing business in Mexico for the past 5 years or so. Construction business. We deal with government authorizations and licenses all the time. I can say, that I have never had to pay a bribe.

Illegal's culture increase Bribery in Government.. known as la Mordida — "the bite."