Deadly Hesitation: Gummed-up Rules of Engagement Still in Effect

The Washington Times ^ | 07-20-2007 | Bill Gertz

[RTO]

A U.S. military officer said the Army is still putting out rules of engagement (ROE) that are dangerous and could cause U.S. soldiers to get killed in the war on terrorism. Gen. David H. Petraeus, the commander in Iraq, recently expressed concerns that soldiers fighting insurgents and terrorists do not have clear guidance on the use of force.

One recent session at the Army Judge Advocate General's Legal Center and School in Charlottesville included an instructor who taught one class that "we must hesitate and be careful when we pull the trigger," the officer said.

"They are teaching that even following ROE, while not illegal, may not be a good idea," ... "They are teaching that to win the hearts and minds that we may have to take casualties through hesitations."

[RTO]

My God, the "enemy at the gates" is inside the military too.

[Hilltop]

An astute observation.

I pray that the Commander in Chief, el presidente’ “Jorge” forgets “compassionate conservative” and orders the utter destruction of all those that pose a clear and present danger.

[tarheelswamprat]

If I were President I would issue a direct order to the Joint Chiefs, Petraeus and the entire chain of command that ALL JAG and NCIS personnel would first be required to serve a full combat tour as regular fighting squad members before being allowed to assume any legal MOS duties. While serving in this capacity they would have no legal oversight or evaluative authority - they would serve exactly the same as everyone else, under the same conditions.

Our military is being killed by an effete, arrogant corps of elitist legal specialists who are attempting to influence and control policy, and are acting much like the hated and feared Communist Party "political officers" who were placed in every Soviet military unit to spy and snitch on their own people.

As I have said before, why would anyone expect that allowing lawyers to run our military would be any less disastrous than allowing lawyers to run Congress and the rest of our government has been?

[Little Bill]

I got my a** chewed by the Battalion Commander for letting loose in the Saigon Military Zone after receiving Heavy Fire and waiting for the Gook in charge to give permission. We had a couple of WIA and that saved my a$$.

[vox humana]

An instructor who taught one class that "we must hesitate and be careful when we pull the trigger"...

Why is this idiot even allowed in the school, let alone teach a class? PC is going to get a lot of our people killed.

[RTO]

I could not have written the point any better... My hat is off to you sir. That was a spectacularly masterful suggestion.

RTO

[RTO]

For the same reason that Catholic colleges have professors whom teach things contrary to the Catholic faith... the western world is imploding... Remember the Italian communist who said that America could never be defeated from without? He coined the phrase “marching through the institutions”... Too bad I cannot recall his name... Getting old sucks.

RTO

[tarheelswamprat]

Remember the Italian communist who said that America could never be defeated from without? He coined the phrase “marching through the institutions”...

Antonio Gramsci. His statement was that the triumph of world socialism could only be achieved by "a long march through the institutions of a civil society". This is also the origin of the name of the North Korean "Long March" ballistic missiles.

[RTO]

THAT’S THE GUY!!!
THANK YOU!

I knew his name started with ‘G’... Gromski, Grimski... something that sounded like “grim” reaper.

RTO

[ThePythonicCow]

Huh? You got chewed out for "waiting for the Gook in charge" ?

Did you mean to say you got chewed out for "not waiting" ?

[eyedigress]

The libs used to spin this every week on JAG. Anyone who has been in the military knows the show was full of it. It was meant for ignorant sillys to think liberal speak was the order of the day in the Clintoon Administration.

(Catherine Bell was the only reason anybody watched that show, IMHO)

[maine-iac7]

yep - in Afghanistan , after a fire fight, if they get some of them in hand, they are "allowed' to question/fingerprint/eye scan - and let go.

This is frustrating to the troops - as they know which guys are terrorists and will be firing at them again tomorrow.

I has to stop!

[Little Bill]

As you corrected, certain areas were free fire or restricted fire, had to clear through the Provence Chief, could be difficult.

[ThePythonicCow]

could be difficult.

Yup. Still better to be tried by twelve of your peers (and your case didn't even go that far) than carried by six of them.

Or as I say in my civilian job, better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

[ChildOfThe60s]

Hey folks, this shiat has been going on for a long time. Including Nam. Lebanon in the 80’s. Bosnia. Some of the stuff I was told by military personnel that were there was plain nauseating. Criminal.

How about being ordered to patrol with unloaded weapons? You can’t pop the magazine in until you’ve been fired on. AF recruiter that had served in Bosnia told me that one. Obviously he wasn’t trying to recruit me (too old).

[Little Bill]

I have been an Engineer in the power trades for 40 years, I know exactly where you are coming from.

[RTO]

I have been an Engineer in the power trades for 40 years, I know exactly where you are coming from.

IMHO, just as JAGs should be forced to do combat TDY, every engineer should do hard time as a line mechanic for several years before being set loose to design anything... even a doggone toilet seat!

RTO

[philman_36]

Part of the “hands tied behind their backs” approach to this police action. I refuse to call it a war any more.

[gonzo]

ROEs suck Ping ........................ FRegards

[Squantos]

Yep....those who can do those who can’t teach.......use of force / ROE is currently taught per the law enforcement definition vs the military need. Gone are the days of recon by fire and mad minutes..............