Moral legislation [Alan Keyes]

RenewAmerica.us ^ | July 20, 2007 | Alan Keyes

[maine-iac7]

bttt

[SirJohnBarleycorn]

The moral discipline required for liberty is therefore the capacity to keep our use of freedom within boundaries consistent with respect for the determinations of God that make it possible.

Good essay. A materialistic, hedonistic, selfish people can not be governed under the light hand envisioned by the Founding Fathers and the government of such a people will eventually evolve into a police state.

[EternalVigilance]

You're so right.

"Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants." - William Penn

[Zon]

It's about the true starting point of moral deliberation — the principles of moral judgment, the standards, ideas and ideals of what is to be praised, what is to be blamed, what is to be honored, what is to be condemned.

Initiation of force, threat of force and fraud to be condemned. Initiation of force is the denial of reason. First, the criminal initiating force denies his own ability to reason, and secondly, it denies the victim his ability to reason. 

[Jorge]

Good essay. A materialistic, hedonistic, selfish people can not be governed under the light hand envisioned by the Founding Fathers and the government of such a people will eventually evolve into a police state.

Really? So how have we survived for the past 200 years?

With all due respect Alan Keyes subscribes to some great social virtues but somehow still manages to come off as self-righteous blow hard. I'm tired of him.

[SirJohnBarleycorn]

So how have we survived for the past 200 years?

Because the moral degeneracy of our society seen in the breakdown of the family, abortion, widespread divorce, sexual licentiousness, acceptance of homosexuality as normal, astronomical illegitimacy rates, the decline of what was once the dominating influence of the church (of whatever denomination) in most people's lives, violent crime rates, the debasement of popular culture, etc., etc., which in the past only had a limited reach into society, in recent decades have become widespread.

Were you born yesterday or have you been living in a cave somewhere? You haven't noticed these trends over the last 50 years?

[EternalVigilance]

Initiation of force, threat of force and fraud to be condemned. Initiation of force is the denial of reason. First, the criminal initiating force denies his own ability to reason, and secondly, it denies the victim his ability to reason.

Can you explain clearly how that bit of libertarian boilerplate has anything to do with the Keyes paragraph you quoted?

[Jorge]

"So how have we survived for the past 200 years?"

Because the moral degeneracy of our society seen in the breakdown of the family, abortion, widespread divorce, sexual licentiousness, acceptance of homosexuality as normal, astronomical illegitimacy rates, the decline of what was once the dominating influence of the church (of whatever denomination) in most people's lives, violent crime rates, the debasement of popular culture, etc., etc., which in the past only had a limited reach into society, in recent decades have become widespread.

Ugh. You sound like a fun person to be around.

Were you born yesterday or have you been living in a cave somewhere? You haven't noticed these trends over the last 50 years?

Between your posts and the fossil records, I think I did notice something........ ( did somebody remove my feeding tube?)

[SirJohnBarleycorn]

There are probably some Paris Hilton threads for you to go play on.

[Jorge]

There are probably some Paris Hilton threads for you to go play on.

Such as the one's you came from?

[Nan48]

“Really? So how have we survived for the past 200 years?”

We’ve survived because there have been enough moral, self-governing people to keep this country afloat. With the way society is headed today, who knows how much longer we’ll survive. We're on the brink--just like the Biblical model of Sodom and Gomorrah and trying to find 10 righteous men, etc.

[SirJohnBarleycorn]

“One’s”? Are you an ESL student or have you just never bothered to learn English?

[EternalVigilance]

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity…let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason, and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." …"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." - President George Washington, Farewell Address, Sept. 17, 1796

[Jorge]

“One’s”? Are you an ESL student or have you just never bothered to learn English?

Oh! we have a spell-check queen on board!

[EternalVigilance]

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion…Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." - John Adams, member of the Continental Congress, 2nd President of the United States, Vice President To the United States, Commissioner to France, US Ambassador to England - Oct. 11, 1798, address to the officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts

[SirJohnBarleycorn]

LOL! Yeah, that’s the ticket, uhhh, I just misspelled it...

Hey but we’re a fun group on this thread - we’re all gonna do some meth and go pick up some hookers - I’m sure you’re up for that, right Jorge?

[EternalVigilance]

Benjamin Franklin in a letter to the President of the first Constitutional Congress, 1789:

"I have lived a long time, Sir, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that " except the Lord build the House they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest. I therefore beg leave to move- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and hat one or more Clergy of the city be requested to officiate in that service."

[Jorge]

We’ve survived because there have been enough moral, self-governing people to keep this country afloat.

Like you?

[EternalVigilance]

James Madison, chief architect of the Constitution, signer of the Declaration, Secretary of State, President of the United States:

"We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind to self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."