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Sagging Pants May Have Contributed To Fatal Shooting
The Indy Channel ^ | 07/30/07

Posted on 07/30/2007 11:08:32 AM PDT by Abathar

GARY, Ind. -- A teenager shot to death by an officer as he fled a burglary scene may have tried to pull up his sagging pants, causing the officer to mistake the movement for a reach for a weapon, according to newly filed court documents.

In a motion to dismiss a federal civil rights lawsuit filed by Vincent Smith Jr.'s father, the city of Gary suggests the 16-year-old was shot as he was reaching down to hoist up his drooping pants and sprint away from Officer Levi Randolph.

"Police officers have to make a lot of split-second decisions," said city attorney Donald Levinson. "The law does not say you have to wait until someone shoots at you (to act)."

The city's motion includes photographs of Smith's body, his underwear clearly riding above his jean's sagging waist, laying in the alley behind a house he was apparently burglarizing.

Randolph, who was indicted in March for the Jan. 15 shooting, faces up to eight years in prison if convicted in the killing.

The officer claims he thought Smith was reaching to pull a gun as the teen walked out the back door of the house. Randolph said he fired at Smith but missed when the teen reached toward his pants before sprinting through the backyard.

Randolph said that after Smith scaled an 8-foot fence and dropped to the ground, he turned toward the pursuing officer and again reached into his pants. Randolph fired again and struck Smith behind the left ear, killing him instantly.

In both cases, Levinson suggests in his filing that Smith was gathering up his sagging pants in anticipation of sprinting away.

Low-hanging pants that wearers must frequently hoist have become a hip-hop fashion statement popularized by rappers. Sagging pants are said to have their roots in prison culture, where inmates were often issued ill-fitting pants and belts were banned.

Douglas Hobson, an attorney for Vincent Smith Sr., said police training should better prepare officers to make split-second judgments to prevent shooting suspects who pose no threat.

"You've got to know there is a gun or something that is going to hurt someone. If these kinds of excuses justify something like that, then we've got a long way to go," he said.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; cleanunderwear; donutwatch; fashionstatement; thuglife
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To: Abathar

Darwin’s underpants.


41 posted on 07/30/2007 11:41:12 AM PDT by gunservative
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To: Disambiguator

At my school we tell them regularly, doesn’t seem to bother them.


42 posted on 07/30/2007 11:41:37 AM PDT by ontap (Just another backstabbing conservative)
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

The Beagle is making sounds like a criminal defense atttorney.


43 posted on 07/30/2007 11:41:50 AM PDT by verity (Muhammed and Harry Reid are Dirt Bags)
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To: Abathar
I could care less one way or another, but how can someone turn and face somebody, pull at their pants and get shot "behind the left ear".

just wondering? Otherwise I think he aimed at center of mass and jerked the trigger a little bit.

Maybe some time at the reactive target range might help. One less parasite in society...yawn...back to scanning.

44 posted on 07/30/2007 11:42:07 AM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck....... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.,)
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To: Abathar

I think he would have been fine with just loose pants. The problem came with the burglary and fleeing from the police.


45 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:00 AM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: Abathar

Good thing this cop wasn’t a border patrol agent. He’d be facing some serious time.


46 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:08 AM PDT by andyk (Go Matt Kenseth!)
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To: ontap

I read somewhere that in prison subculture it demonstrates that your “available”.


47 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:38 AM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: Abathar

The penalty seems harsh but fair.


48 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:39 AM PDT by gridlock (War is Not the Answer, but Peace is Not an Option)
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To: Abathar

The penalty seems harsh but fair.


49 posted on 07/30/2007 11:43:46 AM PDT by gridlock (War is Not the Answer, but Peace is Not an Option)
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To: TexasCajun
"What's the point

I've always been told that the baggy clothing was to assist in the hiding of firearms.

50 posted on 07/30/2007 11:44:05 AM PDT by Proud_texan (Just my opinion, no relationship to reality is expressed or implied.)
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

“Are you one of those guys that pretend that one can only commit suicide with a pistol by using an index finger to pull the trigger, rather than holding it backwards and using your thumb........yes?”

Huh? You think this might be a case of suicide?


51 posted on 07/30/2007 11:44:09 AM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super Walmart for news .)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

your=you’re


52 posted on 07/30/2007 11:44:29 AM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: verity

“The Beagle is making sounds like a criminal defense atttorney.”

No, but the cop’s story doesn’t make sense and if used in court he will likely lose.


53 posted on 07/30/2007 11:48:03 AM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super Walmart for news .)
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To: dfwgator
If you dress like a thug, don’t be surprised when the police treat you like a thug.

That's exactly why I support a dress code. </taliban>

54 posted on 07/30/2007 11:49:10 AM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (Can I cast the second stone?)
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To: Beagle8U
"There is still no way to shoot someone facing you behind the ear, even from the side. "

Of course there is, face a person and turn your head, as if your going to turn around quickly. I could see a bullet hitting someone behind the ear quite easily if their head is turned, no?

55 posted on 07/30/2007 11:49:28 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: Abathar

Sounds like a good kill to me....

Dress like a gangster, behave like a gangster, be a gangster — die like one should.


56 posted on 07/30/2007 11:50:01 AM PDT by river rat (Semper Fi - You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: bannie
He’s double guilty: He’s guilty of the theft and guilty for causing a death in the commission of a theft.

And guilty of a fashion faux pas!

57 posted on 07/30/2007 11:50:31 AM PDT by llevrok (I voted for George Bush - not Jorge Arbusto.)
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To: ontap

Are you a student or staff? What part of the world are you in?


58 posted on 07/30/2007 11:51:14 AM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: N. Theknow

That’s ok, I thought Gary, Indiana was named after the president of U.S. Steel, not Elbert of Judicary fame. My grandfather was named Elbert, for some perverse reason.


59 posted on 07/30/2007 11:51:34 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Bestowing kindness on the evil visits cruelty on the good.)
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To: Beagle8U

Its interesting to note that the officer was indicted on charges, but he is using these photographs and story to try to get a lawsuit dismissed. Makes me wonder what story he told IA and why the GJ didn’t buy his explanation of events(he likely even testified as that courtesy is usually extended to LEO’s). Probably hung up on the fact that it seems more likely he wasn’t facing the officer than he somehow shot him behind the ear from in front(who knows, maybe he yanked his head real quick or the officer hesitated, but he certainly wasn’t facing the officer when the gun was fired).


60 posted on 07/30/2007 11:52:22 AM PDT by NorthFlaRebel
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