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Mitt unplugged
Politico ^ | August 04, 2007 | Jonathan Martin

Posted on 08/04/2007 2:34:44 PM PDT by mmanager

Mitt Romney engaged in a heated discussion about his Mormon faith with a prominent Des Moines talk show host off the air on Thursday morning. The contentious back-and-forth between Romney and WHO's Jan Mickelson began on the air (video link courtesy Breitbart.tv) when the former governor appeared on the popular program that has become a regular stop for GOP presidential hopefuls. But the conversation spilled over to a commercial break and went on after the program ended, where a visibly annoyed Romney spoke in much greater detail about his church's doctrines than he is comfortable doing so in public.

The footage was captured by the station's in-studio camera and posted on its website. But Romney, who is careful to portray a sunny and upbeat public image, clearly did not know he was being recorded. The candidate reveals a private side that is at turns cutting, combative and sarcastic, but most of all agitated at being forced to defend what he and his church stand for.

(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: antibush; antireagan; bigotrybullies; elections; independent; maliberal; massliberal; mittromney; mormonisim; prochoice; progayrights; rino
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To: gondramB
I heard the Pope say something similar recently. That doesn’t stop Catholics from being Christians. This tendency to judge other Christians and decide they are not true churches is troubling and I wish Mormons and Catholics and everybody else did not do that - judging other’s faith is really for God.

I tend to think that judging one's faith....is up to God.

But judging a church denomination..is good critical thinking.

Are we not supposed to make sure we are "on good ground"? Are we not supposed to test, and make sure what we are being taught is true?

Isn't that just good judgment?

441 posted on 08/08/2007 7:11:54 AM PDT by Osage Orange (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
No, when I say “The American People”, I mean The American People. They like to feel they know the character of their President. They want him to be likable, consistent, etc.

Are we talking about the same American people that elected Clinton twice?

I, personally, will not be voting for someone in a cult for POTUS - regardless if the cult is mormonism, jehovah’s witness, Hare Krishna, etc. That’s pretty simple. No one in a cult earns my vote for POTUS. My call.

Uh huh. So, you're like the people who could never vote for John or Robert Kennedy -- not because of their policies, but because they had some twisted idea that the United States would be run by remote control from the Vatican.

Brilliant. But like you finally admitted, that's YOUR call. You don't and can't speak for "The American People." Don't project your ignorance and bigotry on the rest of us.

And, for the record, I am NOT a member of the LDS church.

442 posted on 08/08/2007 7:19:31 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Has George W. Bush been taking Carter's Little Pills?)
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To: MEGoody

Thanks for your thoughtful post (about debunking and the U.S. Supreme Court). Good one.


443 posted on 08/08/2007 7:37:37 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy (Romney Rocks!!!)
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To: L.N. Smithee

“Are we talking about the same American people that elected Clinton twice?”

EXACTLY! When he spoke, he lied so well that people believed
he meant what he said. Mitt risks that quality of believability.

“Uh huh. So, you’re like the people who could never vote for John or Robert Kennedy — not because of their policies, but because they had some twisted idea that the United States would be run by remote control from the Vatican.”

No, he wasn’t a cultist.

“You don’t and can’t speak for “The American People.” Don’t project your ignorance and bigotry on the rest of us. “

Never said I did. Thanks for revealing your heart to all
who read. You come across as an angry cultist.

Bigotry is an interesting word. I do believe that my
beliefs are better than other groups.

I’m a conservative bigot and intolerant of voting for liberals.

I’m a pro-life bigot and intolerant of those who would
slaughter innocent children.

I’m also bigoted towards those in cults when it comes to
voting for POTUS.

I am also bigoted toward other beliefs I see as superior -
fiscal conservative policies, low taxes, equal opportunity -
not results.

ampu


444 posted on 08/08/2007 7:47:23 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Osage Orange

>>Are we not supposed to make sure we are “on good ground”? Are we not supposed to test, and make sure what we are being taught is true?

Isn’t that just good judgment?<<

Of course. And I do that. That’s why I’m not a Mormon and not a Catholic. But this debate is about judging whether people who say they are Christians and who ask forgiveness in Jesus’ name are really Christians and then translating that into a political litmus test. At that point I think we have crossed over.


445 posted on 08/08/2007 8:46:55 AM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words)
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To: restornu
My objection to Article 2 may seen trivial but it is critical to understanding human sin.
We are not punished because Adam sinned but we sin because Adam sinned.
The critical question is not the creed of the LDS Church, but does the Church accept the three historic creeds of the Christian church, does it accept what CS Lewis described as Mere Christianity.
446 posted on 08/08/2007 10:38:26 AM PDT by quadrant
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To: quadrant
My objection to Article 2 may seen trivial but it is critical to understanding human sin.

We are not punished because Adam sinned but we sin because Adam sinned.

The critical question is not the creed of the LDS Church, but does the Church accept the three historic creeds of the Christian church, does it accept what CS Lewis described as Mere Christianity.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

447 posted on 08/08/2007 10:43:32 AM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu

The critical point is that we are not punished for Adam’s sin but we sin because Adam sinned. No mater how hard we try, we cannot escape the consequences of Adam’s act.

Adam’s sin (and Eve’s) was the event that separated God from man and allowed sin into the world. Human beings - through pride and folly - chose the to live as if we did not need God.

We cannot perfect ourselves. The only atonement for our sin - the only way “back” to God - is the redeeming death and resurrection of Jesus, who is the Lamb of God and the Second Person of the Trinity.


448 posted on 08/08/2007 12:09:14 PM PDT by quadrant
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To: restornu
it would be best you stop harrasssing the LDS on this question!

OOOooohhh!

Or WHAT will happen???


I told you in Post #1124 and if you wanted to know more to search the scriptures

You know quite well that's it's not IN the 'scriptures', but interpolated from many 'sources'.


You have your answer now in post #398 and also post #399

I have an awful lot of text, but nothing that can really be called an answer.


I can post A LOT OF TEXT that will show EXACTLY where the Temple Rites came from, but I don't think you really want THAT to happen.

449 posted on 08/08/2007 12:33:33 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: gondramB

From their own website -->  http://www.jw-media.org

 

Jesus

He is the Son of God. He came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. His death and resurrection made salvation to eternal life possible for those exercising faith in him. He is now ruling as King of God's heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. Jesus never claimed equality with God and thus is not part of a Trinity.—John 3:16; 14:28; Revelation 11:15.

 

 

Who Is Jesus Christ?

Why is Jesus called God's "firstborn" Son? (1)
Why is he called "the Word"? (1)
Why did Jesus come to earth as a man? (2-4)
Why did he perform miracles? (5)
What will Jesus do in the near future? (6)

1. Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he came to earth. He was God's first creation, and so he is called the "firstborn" Son of God. (; ) Jesus is the only Son that God created by himself. Jehovah used the prehuman Jesus as his "master worker" in creating all other things in heaven and on earth. (; ) God also used him as His chief spokesman. That is why Jesus is called "the Word."—; .

Mary and Joseph with Jesus as an infant 2. God sent His Son to the earth by transferring his life to the womb of Mary. So Jesus did not have a human father. That is why he did not inherit any sin or imperfection. God sent Jesus to earth for three reasons: (1) To teach us the truth about God (), (2) to maintain perfect integrity, providing a model for us to follow (), and (3) to sacrifice his life to set us free from sin and death. Why was this needed?—.

3. By disobeying God's command, the first man, Adam, committed what the Bible calls "sin." So God sentenced him to death. () He no longer measured up to God's standards, so he was not perfect anymore. Slowly he grew old and died. Adam passed on sin to all his children. That is why we also grow old, get sick, and die. How could mankind be saved?—; .

Jesus hanging on a stake

4. Jesus was a perfect human just like Adam. Unlike Adam, though, Jesus was perfectly obedient to God under even the greatest test. He could therefore sacrifice his perfect human life to pay for Adam's sin. This is what the Bible refers to as the "ransom." Adam's children could thus be released from condemnation to death. All who put their faith in Jesus can have their sins forgiven and receive everlasting life.—; ; .

5. When on earth Jesus cured the sick, fed the hungry, and calmed storms. He even raised the dead. Why did he perform miracles? (1) He felt pity for people who were suffering, and he wanted to help them. (2) His miracles proved that he was God's Son. (3) They showed what he will do for obedient mankind when he rules as King over the earth.—; ; .

6. Jesus died and was resurrected by God as a spirit creature, and he returned to heaven. () Since then, God has made him a King. Soon Jesus will remove all wickedness and suffering from this earth.—; .


You can Google this - jehovah witnesses beliefs - and find out more things...
 
Oh... be warned the Scripture links above may point to the NWT - New World Translation - made by JW headquarters.  It inserts words that are NOT in the original text and they've changed some words to say wqhat they say SURELY the original writers meant.

450 posted on 08/08/2007 12:48:09 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MEGoody
It’s a strange religion that was debunked years ago when the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed polygamy.

I think the 'debunked' means that when GOD gave the Mormons polygamy, it was to be for a LONG time - like FOREVER!

When their leaders CHOOSE to go along with the Supremely Powerful United States Government, instead of waiting on the ALMIGHTY to smite the US officials; it showed how much they REALLY thought their GOD was behind them!

451 posted on 08/08/2007 12:51:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Thanks for your thoughtful post (about debunking and the U.S. Supreme Court). Good one.

Evidently you and I read different posts!

452 posted on 08/08/2007 12:52:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: quadrant
The critical question is not the creed of the LDS Church, but does the Church accept the three historic creeds of the Christian church, does it accept what CS Lewis described as Mere Christianity.

Your answers are Yes and Yes.

The trouble is; that is considered by them to be Christianity 101.

There is SO much more TRUTH to be found in the LDS organization.

SO much more rewards for good behavior,

SO much more Heavenly Levels for faithful members.

453 posted on 08/08/2007 12:56:00 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
I think the 'debunked' means that when GOD gave the Mormons polygamy, it was to be for a LONG time - like FOREVER!

I don't know if polygamy is commanded by God in the Mormon religion or not, but I do know they are required to follow the laws of the land except where it conflicts with a commandment from God. So, if it was a commandment, then they have some splainin' to do. If it wasn't, then I wouldn't think there would be an issue.

454 posted on 08/08/2007 2:13:00 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Elsie
In what way is the Bible lacking that additions are needed?
Do you believe that an Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent God would inspire men to record His testimony and will in such a way that anything would be lacking?

My pastor - Michael Youssef of Church of the Apostles in Atlanta - has a theory about cults: they always say the Bible plus something else. Currently, he’s preaching a series of sermons on discernment. I suggest you go to Apostles.org and download the sermons.

455 posted on 08/08/2007 3:09:48 PM PDT by quadrant
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To: Utah Girl

Repeat what you just said.

I pray for you. The salvation of Christ needs no silk under-garments for protection.

I am sorry for journey in life, and your after-life.


456 posted on 08/08/2007 6:59:03 PM PDT by mmanager (Fred instead of Purebred, Crossbred and the Hothead)
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To: MEGoody
 
I don't know if polygamy is commanded by God in the Mormon religion or not, but I do know they are required to follow the laws of the land except where it conflicts with a commandment from God.
 
Read from the LDS organizations OWN documents:  (pictures by me)

 
 
 

   <--- THIS is how the "Everlasting Ordinance" came into being...
 
 

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

SECTION 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501—507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

 1—6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7—14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15—20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21—25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26—27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28—39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40—47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48—50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51—57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58—66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 

   

1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines —

2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.

6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fullness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fullness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.

7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

9 Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?

10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed?

11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was?

12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.

13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.

14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.

24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent.  I am he.  Receive ye, therefore,  my law.

25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.

29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.

30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.

31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.

33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.

34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.

35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it.

36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill . Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness .

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.

39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of eUriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.

40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an appointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word.

41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

    



 
And THIS is how Everlasting (ahem) was ended....
 
 
 
OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.


EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us. (Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it. (From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
 


So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!
 
Well; it DID last about 47 years!

457 posted on 08/09/2007 4:50:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mmanager
I'm quite happy in my life. :) Like President Gordon B Hinckley said,
"Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true. And that's exactly where we stand, with a conviction in our hearts that it is true: that Joseph went into the [Sacred] Grove; that he saw the Father and the Son; that he talked with them; that Moroni came; that the Book of Mormon was translated from the plates; that the priesthood was restored by those who held it anciently. That's our claim. That's where we stand, and that's where we fall, if we fall. But we don't. We just stand secure in that faith."
I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored. And if it isn't true, then I have still lived a good life. And Christ will take that into account. :)
458 posted on 08/09/2007 3:13:22 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
I’m also bigoted towards those in cults when it comes to voting for POTUS.

You have yet to answer my question, which should be easy to answer: What exactly is it that YOU fear might happen if this country elects a Mormon President? Can YOU even articulate it?

459 posted on 08/10/2007 12:53:33 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Has George W. Bush been taking Carter's Little Pills?)
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To: L.N. Smithee

smithee,

I never once said I was afraid that something would
happen to the country if mitt were elected... so to
insist that I answer your question is silly.

I am simply not voting for mitt because:

1. He has the Rhino Virus
2. Favorable toward gay rights
3. Conversion of convenience to the Pro-life position
4. In a cult and thinks he will be a god of his own planet
5. Is a businessman and not suited to the Big Chair

best,
ampu


460 posted on 08/10/2007 1:48:36 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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