Posted on 08/05/2007 11:27:15 PM PDT by John Farson
You can’t manage defensible positions, so you resort to petty smears. Ad hominem is a logical fallacy.
I was actually defending L Ron from charges of being a whacko himself. Just because he attracts whackos doesn’t make him one. He’s an oddball, but not necessarily a whacko. He believes that 9/11 is our fault, but he doesn’t necessarily believe that Cheney was remote-flying the planes with Halliburton-installed equipment.
I feel I should give credit where credit is due, that’s all.
You’re right. But this is not unique to Ron Paul. Go to any pro-life meeting or gun show — and you will see some genuine crazies.
It doesn’t mean the pro-life or defense of the 2nd Amendment is any less reasonable.
On September 15, 2002 in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Lindsey estimated the high limit on the cost to be 1-2% of GNP, or about $100-$200 billion. Mitch Daniels, Director of the Office of Management and Budget, subsequently discounted this estimate as "very, very high" and stated that the costs would be between $50-$60 billion. This lower figure was endorsed by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.We didn't use overwhelming force or take decisive control of the country either.
Iraq is atop 5% of the world's oil, and about one trillion cubic feet of natural gas, this without any exploration program for 35 years. It is estimated that Iraq's extraction technology is so antiquated that an upgrade (now in progress) to more modern tech will yield a 30% productivity gain, when compared with the pre-war extraction rate. Thirty percent of five percent may not sound like much, but with Iraq's dire need to pump oil for it's nascent economy, OPEC will be greatly debilitated when Iraqi crude comes fully online.
Our country uses 140 billion gallons of petroleum-derived fuel per year, so a mere 20 cent reduction in the price at the pump, by virtue of the added supply, would yield $28 billion per year to the American economy to help pay back the cost of the war. This is not to mention the cost of other petroleum derivatives, like plastic products.
Wars are fought on both strategic and psychological battlefields. The jihadis fully expected that we would come to Afghanistan, where they expected to defeat us there as they had the Russians. They surely never expected us to take out Saddam, and our presence in their midst has dealt them a severe psychological blow, such that they have been impotent to attack us again on our own soil. Can we attach an "opportunity cost" to what HASN'T happened, by virtue of the Iraq war?
I assume they are speaking of "retirees" from the military, not just veterans. Veterans do not get many benefits. Some college money, VA hospital care (right, sure, good luck there), and maybe VA disability. But, no pension. Only the retirees get that. The benefits they have stripped from us that we were told we were going to get add up to way more than we have now. Little by little, they are now taking more and more away from us, or making us pay for what we were told, "give us 20 years and you get this, this and this." Now that we are retired, it is "oh, well, those were just promises. We don't keep promises in the US government, unless there are millions of votes in it for us." /sarcasm still on.
Truism of the day!
Congrats.
Saddam Hussein wasn't the kind of extra-territorial menace that was assumed by the administration one year ago. If I knew then what I know now about what kind of situation we would be in, I would have opposed the war.
—William F. Buckley, Jr.
NYT interview (6/24/2004)
Veterans deserve every benefit they get — maybe more. I think forcing them into extended service is shameful.
I see a difference. People who support the 2nd amendment, for example, may vary in many different ways, but in terms of what’s drawing them together, their core belief is (to me) rock solid and valid.
I can’t say the same for what draws the whackos to RP. He is a friend of Nancy. A friend of Harry. A pawn of the worst leftists scum within the halls of congress. The fact that he may or may not also have some good ideas unrelated to his alliance-with-traitors isn’t that important to me. I’ll get those good ideas elsewhere. From someone who doesn’t effectively support Pelosi, Reid and AQ. (Remember, I said “effectively”.)
The core belief of someone at a gun show is that guns should be legal. The core belief of RP is that 9/11 is our fault and that we should turn tail and run from Iraq.
Big difference.
Oh, well. If William F BUCKLEY says it...
bfd
This war has made Iran and China more powerful.
Talabani has signed agreements to buy weapons and cooperate economically with China.
Let me just cut to the chase. You cannot be a Conservative and a Republican and be against the WOT... and Iraq is the central front in the WOT (zawahiri and bin laden have stated this). Do you remember what bin laden said after ‘toon ran from Somalia after our defeat there?
I look upon you as I do harry reid and al qaeda... you are as surely an enemy of Freedom and Liberty as much as bin laden and the dims. You and your ilk are a pox upon America! You are NO DIFFERENT than sindee sheethead! LLS
Paul did say it was our fault. He blames bad policymakers.
America is more than just the federal government.
Is William F. Buckley a conservative?
Al qaeda was sheltering in a no-fly zone — outside of Saddam controlled space.
And how much would that border fence cost again?
One of the MAJOR benefits that all prospective military retirees, during my generation, was 1) the retired check after 20 years; 2) the commissary benefit; and 3) medical care for life.
So, what happens. The Imperial Federal Government gives us the retired check. They tried to cut it from 50% at 20 years, to 40% at 20 years, but that fell flat on its face and they lost people from non-reenlisting. So, they close base after base after base. That reduced the access to a military commissary for shopping to a rare thing. The nearest commissary to me is 110 miles to Huntsville, AL at Red Stone, or 115 to Atlanta for Fort Gillem, which is also going to be closed, or 145 miles to Fort Benning. If you take the time and money to drive to those, what have you saved? The nearest post was Fort McClellan, AL. It was 7 miles from the house. Hundreds of retired military here. So, Klinton kills Fort McClellan and it closes. The AL national guard uses part of it now. Real Estate developers have the rest. Many really, really nice building, gyms, pools, etc., in the old MP School area, are falling down. Wasted millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars as they rot to the ground. And lastly, the health care benefit. First, the base closures take away access to the hospitals. They they create this monstrosity of a health-care system called TRICARE. That is basically our insurance carrier now. We have to now pay a fee every year, and co-pays. NOW the WONDERFUL BUSH administration wants to nearly TRIPLE our yearly fee payment.
While a lot of people will say, well boo-hoo-hoo about that, the thing is, this is what kept a lot of folks in the military. Willing to forego the lower pay, the constant travel, the time away from families. These benefits that we were promised, were what kept my generation and earlier generations there. We knew what we were getting for our service. However, after you are retired. The imperial federal government, BUSH, says, NO, those were only PROMISES. The RECRUITERS did not have the right to make those promises!!!!! However, the imperial federal government committed FRAUD, knowingly allowing their recruiters to make such promises, however NEVER told them to stop. The system was working to their advantage. When they did not like the system later, they changed it. Piss on us.
Would I serve again. YES. However, I would have made much different life choices also. I would have done a lot of things different. A lot of decisions I made, for me and my family, were made off what I was TOLD I was getting. Only, after the fact, the Imperial Federal Government changes everything to meet their agendas and lies about it.
I would not give you 15 cents for ANY politician. NOT ONE. I do not trust any politician to what he or she promises. They ALL LIE. What is worse, I do not trust my government. When the people do not trust their elected officials and government, then what do you have. I have lost ALL FAITH in my government. At all levels. They all lie to fit their own personal agendas. George Bush is a prime example of a liar who tell you one thing and delivers another.
We'll probably get to find out when a terrorist walks across our undefended borders with one.
You sound just like my sister, who is a diehard KOS poster.
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