Ana Marie Cox: 'I Know Mitt Romney Is Not Himself Christian'

Well said, I concur.

"Heh?"

Again, what christian denomination or church do you speak for? There are 34,000 christian churches worldwide. Which one is the true religion?

Nuts

I actually don’t know...are Mormons Christians?

Mormons call themselves Christians, or even the most Christian (or only Christians?) however, traditional theologians from virtually all the various Christian denominations, Protestant, Catholic or Eastern Orthodox deny the Mormon's claims to be Christians.

Different definitions for "God" (or gods...Mormonism is polytheistic), "Jesus", "Humanity", "Satan", "salvation" (salvation of women too) and a multitude of other doctrines are what makes the "Latter Day Saints" group to be considered a cult--(meaning basically an immitation) of Christianity, not a bona-fide Christian denomination.

This of course does not deny that Mormons are usually decent, law abiding, family oriented people.

Among many other things, importantly, Mormons explicitly deny that God is a Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, an extremely basic foundational belief in all Christian groups.

You decide:

The defintion of words in a dictionary changes based on changes in usage in the culture.

Mormon versus Christian definitions

Word...	Mormon	Christian
Atonement	(1) Used almost exclusively as a reference to Jesus' conquering physical death for all people. By conquering physical death, Jesus made it possible for all people to enter again into the presence of Heavenly Father - if for no other reason than to be judged by him. In other words, they are again 'at-one' with him (atoned). This will happen at Judgment Day. Those who have earned it will live in the Celestial Kingdom with Heavenly Father. Everyone else will live outside of the presence of Heavenly Father. (2) At times atonement includes the thought of Jesus' paying for people's sins. But underlying all such references is the thought that they have to pay him back. For a good example of the LDS view of Jesus' atoning work, see Gospel Principles chapter 12.	Jesus' complete payment, made once, for all the sins of all the people of the entire world. Hebrews 7:27: Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 1 Peter 3:18: For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. Through faith in Jesus' payment, we are given eternal life in heaven, and through faithing daily in His transformative work we are engrafted with His life while here on earth.
Bible	One of four books Mormons consider scripture. They believe it to be the Word of God "as far as it is translated correctly" (Eighth Article of Faith). They believe many precious parts have been lost from it (1 Nephi 13:28). Consequently they consider it the least reliable of the scriptures. Many Mormons are not familiar with it.	The inspired, complete and inerrant Word of God.
Damnation	Mormon's Plan of Salvation outlines an intricate process of progression toward eternal life (exaltation). Anything that stops a person in their progression, such as dying without having a celestial marriage, is considered damnation as it blocks or dams their progression.	The consequence of unbelief. Unbelief results in damnation, that is, suffering eternal punishment in hell.
Eternal Life (Exaltation)	Living eternally as a god, synonymous with godhood and exaltation. "Exaltation means the same thing as eternal life" (Learn of Me, p. 72). Eternal life is reserved for those who attain the highest level of the celestial kingdom. Mormons must become perfect, have received their endowment, and been married in the temple (Celestial Marriage) before they can earn eternal life. This eternal life will be lived both with Heavenly Father in the celestial kingdom and as god over their own world which they will populate with their own children.	By faith in Jesus' payment for our sins, we are given the gift of eternal life living with God in heaven as his children, literally children in His blood, His blood in us, as now direct heirs of God‘s life extended into us through the Blood of Christ.
Faith	(1) The belief that God exists and has given a good plan of salvation (Mormonism). (2) The power God gives Mormons whereby they can resist sin and become perfect. "But he must believe the truth, obey the truth, and practice the truth, to obtain the power of God called faith" (Past Living Prophet and President Brigham Young quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church Brigham Young p. 56). The more righteous a person is, the more power (faith) God will give him. "To those who have not begun the quest of comprehension, the word faith appears to be only a synonym for a kind of belief or conviction....It is a principle of power" (Sharing the Gospel Manual, p. 82).	The sure hope of our deliverance from death to eternal life in heaven. Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit; faithing is the walk of living in that presence being transformed by the renewing of our mind.
Forgiveness	Must be earned through what may be "weeks, years, or centuries" of effort. To be forgiven of a sin, one must meet the demands of the LDS definition of repentance for that sin. God 'remembers' the original sin and you lose your forgiveness if you recommit the sin.	The undeserved gift of having your sins separated from you "as far as the east is from the west". Because Jesus paid our penalty as our substitute, we are considered guiltless by God. God does not remember our sins.
Gift	Mormonism has expanded the definition of the term 'gift'. The expanded definition includes as 'gifts' things which are rewarded to an individual only after first completing certain requirements or first demonstrating sufficient worthiness. The expanded definition also includes as 'gifts' things which once received, obligate the receiver to a set of conditions; which, if broken revoke the 'gift'. Most 'gifts' in Mormonism actually fall under the expanded part of the Mormon definition (eternal life, grace, forgiveness, the help of the Holy Ghost, most of God's many blessings). Mormon doctrine goes so far as to say that God is 'obligated' to give a particular 'gift' once the prescribed prerequisites have been achieved by the receiver of the gift. Most of the 'gifts' of Mormonism are not gifts but rewards, compensation, obligatory payments, and contracts.	A gift is something we receive which is undeserved, unearned, offered freely by the bestower.
Gospel	A term that refers to Mormonism in general. Or in particular, Mormonism's intricate plan of salvation. "Mormonism so-called - which actually is the gospel of Christ, restored anew this day" (Sharing the Gospel Manual, p. 176).	The "Good News" of free and full salvation (eternal life with God in heaven) won for mankind by Jesus Christ.
Grace	The power God gives people to save themselves, conditional on their earning it by doing all they can do on their own. "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:23). This grace does not directly provide them with eternal life, but rather with the power to make up the difference between "all they can do" and perfection.	The unconditional, free gift of eternal life given in/to us through believing/faithing in Jesus' saving work. Ephesians 2:8-9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— ⁹not by works, so that no one can boast.
Heaven	Any of the three kingdoms Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial. Life even on the lowest kingdom will be much better than earth, and even the vilest of unbelievers will receive a life in heaven. "The book (Doctrine and Covenants) explains clearly that the lowest glory to which man is assigned is so glorious as to be beyond the understanding of man. It is a doctrine fundamental in Mormonism that the meanest sinner, in the final judgment, will receive a glory which is beyond human understanding, which is go great that we are unable to describe it adequately." (John A. Widtsoe, quoted in Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 166). Yet, even in the highest kingdom all but those who have earned exaltation will have less than complete happiness. "How lonely and barren will be the so-called single blessedness throughout eternity!" (Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 19).	God's glorious home, where all who believed in Jesus' saving work will live forever happy with him. Revelations 21:3-4: And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ⁴He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.".
Hell	(1) Not a place of eternal punishment but the temporary state of suffering wicked spirits experience in spirit prison before Judgment Day. "That part of the spirit world inhabited by wicked spirits who are awaiting the eventual day of resurrection is called hell....Hell will have an end" (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 165). (2) The regret the inhabitants of the lower kingdoms will experience as they see the glories of the celestial kingdom is described in Mormon literature as a kind of hell. (3) Mormons call Satan's domain Outer Darkness. Only those who leave the LDS church are sent to Outer Darkness.	Satan's domain of unending torment. Mark 9:47-48: And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, ⁴⁸where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ All unbelievers will be cast into hell. Matthew 25:41: "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Justification	Unfamiliar term to most Mormons. Mormonism describes it as God's strict confirmation of the merits or demerits of man's own actions. In other words, LDS justification is God's act of rewarding people on their own actions, rewarding right and punishing wrong.	God declares us (believers/faithers) not guilty on the basis of Christ's atoning work.
Paid - As in "Jesus paid for my sins".	Mormonism uses the word 'paid' as a synonym for 'refinanced'. When a Mormon says "Jesus paid for my sins", he does not mean that he no longer owes the debt of sin, merely that the creditor and the terms have changed. The entire debt still remains to be paid!	When a Christian says "Jesus paid for my sins", he means that his entire payment for all his sin nature has been made, no more debt remains, no further payment is due or could even be made.
Repentance	"It is a long road spiked with thorns and briars and pitfalls and problems" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness quoted in Gospel Principles, page 123. The Mormon definition includes: 1) sorrow for your sins. 2) abandoning [never again committing] each and every sin. 3) confessing each sin. 4) restitution, as far as it is possible, for every sin ever committed. 5) freely forgive anyone who ever sinned against you. 6) obedience to all of God's other commands [in essence - perfection]. 7) perform works to make up for the sin. 8) there can be no repentance without punishment. 9) you will not even desire to commit the sin again! Points 1-7 referenced in Gospel Principles, pages 124-125. Point 8 referenced in Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, page 224. Point 9 referenced in Missionary Discussions, page 2-14 / Study Guide 2, page 3. From *Teachings of the Presidents of the Church Joseph F. Smith:* True repentance is not only sorrow for sins, and humble penitence and contrition before God, but it involves the necessity of turning away from them, a discontinuance of all evil practices and deeds, a thorough reformation of life, a vital change from evil to good, from vice to virtue, from darkness to light. Not only so, but to make restitution, so far as it is possible, for all the wrongs we have done, to pay our debts, and restore to God and man their rights - that which is due to them from us.	Literally, a change of mind. A turning of one's heart from trust in yourself and your works to trust in Jesus and his work for you. Such a change of heart will result in sorrow for one's sins and a humble attitude of following God's will. This following is the faithing process whereby we die daily to the sin which seeks expression in our living and we nail it to His cross we now carry for cleansing from the sin nature in us still. God‘s indwelling Spirit identifies the urgings of the sin nature and we submit that for His well aimed nails.
Redemption	Synonymous with atonement.	Christ bought all mankind back (redeemed by paying the ransom only our kinsman redeemer can pay ) from the cost, the incurred debt of our sin.nature , though sadly only few will allow Him to apply this ransom to them; See atonement.
Salvation	(1) For most Mormons this is equivalent to physical resurrection, the reuniting of body and soul on Judgment Day. This is the only free gift in Mormonism. This is why many can say they believe they are saved by Jesus alone. They mean that they believe they don't have to do anything to be resurrected. However, this salvation does not grant eternal life (exaltation). That is based on their successful completion of their plan of salvation. Mormonism states that if one makes no effort and is an unbeliever he / she will still be resurrected and assigned a place in the lowest kingdom. Therefore, a Mormon can say that a person is granted heaven solely on Jesus' atoning work. And that person need not even believe in Jesus to attain it. (2) Sometimes 'salvation' is used as a synonym for exaltation, as in "Plan of Salvation" (actually the plan of exaltation).	The free gift of eternal life in heaven with God given us through faith in Jesus' saving work.
Sanctification	A term not commonly used in Mormonism. They use it to refer to a state of saintliness which is obtained as people purify themselves by overcoming sin.	(1) Faithers in Jesus' saving work are considered saints by God (sanctified; set apart ones, but not to be misconstrue as perfect in their flesh). This refers to our status as citizens of heaven, while living on earth. (2) While on earth, the continuing work of the Holy Spirit resulting in the strengthening of our faith and becoming increasingly Christ-like (holy). (3) The final change that occurs on Judgment Day where faithers are forever separated from their sinful nature and are thereby made holy.
Sin	A word not commonly used by Mormons since Mormonism has a weak view of sin. "But all of us are guilty of sin to some degree" (Gospel Principles, p. 117). Instead of talking about sin, they use words such as bad habits, infractions, mistakes, and poor judgments.	Any violation of God's commands, whether in thought, word, or deed. Includes any and all trespass, transgression, iniquity, wickedness, etc. Includes sins of omission (not doing what we are commanded) as well as commission (doing what we are commanded not to do).
Plan of Salvation	In general, Mormonism. Specifically, an intricate plan outlining a process of progression toward eternal life (exaltation). Steps in this process include becoming perfect, temple endowment, and celestial marriage. All the laws and ordinances of Mormonism embody the plan.	God's plan of sacrificing his perfect son so that all who faithe in him are saved (given eternal life). John 3:14-17: Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, ¹⁵that everyone who faithes in him may have eternal life. ¹⁶"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever faithes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ¹⁷For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

163 posted on 08/09/2007 12:57:18 PM EDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

IMO there are no ‘true’ religion. There is only one true Church....the church that belongs to Christ. Only he can give you salvation. No religion can, not one of them.

Here’s a simple answer for you instead of all unnecessary ramblings — yes. :-)

And your interpretation or your minister’s interpretation of the bible is the unmistakeable truth I guess.. cough, cough.

And you were baptized by whom? And by what authority?

Baptism is required to enter the kingdom of God.

Here we go again. An advocacy comparison chart trying to persuade a real theological debate... spinning your web.

You interpret the bible as good as any other Joe 6-pack out there, and your minister is at the same level. So is the person that put this chart together. Although it’s at least better than somethings I read here.

“””Mormons call themselves Christians, or even the most Christian (or only Christians?) however, traditional theologians from virtually all the various Christian denominations, Protestant, Catholic or Eastern Orthodox deny the Mormon’s claims to be Christians. “””

I wanted to point that out as well, but it has been decades since I studied the cults, and I was hoping that someone that is fresher on cult studies would point out the common accepted view of the status of the Mormon religion.

The question 'Is Mitt Romeny a Christian' cannot be answered by you or me. The question 'Is Mormonism restored Christianity' as Joseph Smith claimed, well we can deabte that but it would get boring for FR lurkers. Personally, I have zero trust for a supposed prophet who claimed he could rewrite the King James Bible and 'restore' verses somehow not in the Hebrew, then the Greek, then the King James English. Smith's fabricated prophesies of himself added to Genesis 50 also are quite telling of the fraud.

The wonkette is a dufus for making such a personal smear so publicly to a proven leftist like Olberman about a man she knows perhaps as much as zero about, Mitt Romney. But ya know, get use to this sort of off-the-wall smear tactic, especially if Mitt gets the Republican nomination.

Ana Marie Cox has a wide stance.

Also, this is coming from the Keith Odorman show. Need I say more?

Mormons have more fun.

"If ya want ma baddie
and ya think I'm sexy
c'mon sugar
...lemme know."

I'm baaaaaaaaaad. Sorry. I'm just teasin' anyway.

:O)

Mormons teach that God had physical sex with the Virgin Mary. Had two Mormon missionaries at my door last week and the tried to avoid answering. When pressed to admit or deny the statement, they reluctantly admitted it to be part of Mormon theology.

The came the part about how could it possibly be that God was once a man and yet, God created man. When I pointed out the logical impossibility of such a position, they left very discouraged.

How's this piece of fabrication suit you, apologist? Talk about your 'interpretations'! LOL

JOSEPH SMITH TRANSLATION … (of the King James Bible! From LDS source http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jst/10 ; Note, the fabricated portions are italicized; fraud merchant Smith started with KJV text and added for his purposes, to fabricate prophesies of himself and his works of fiction.

GENESIS 50: 24-38
Moses, Aaron, and Joseph Smith were all named in this prophecy of Joseph in Egypt. Also, Joseph prophesied that the Book of Mormon would become a companion to the record of Judah.

24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die, and go unto my fathers; and I go down to my grave with joy. The God of my father Jacob be with you, to deliver you out of affliction in the days of your bondage; for the Lord hath visited me, and I have obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of my loins, the Lord God will raise up a righteous branch out of my loins; and unto thee, whom my father Jacob hath named Israel, a prophet; (not the Messiah who is called Shilo;) and this prophet shall deliver my people out of Egypt in the days of thy bondage.

25 And it shall come to pass that they shall be scattered again; and a branch shall be broken off, and shall be carried into a far country; nevertheless they shall be remembered in the covenants of the Lord, when the Messiah cometh; for he shall be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the Spirit of power; and shall bring them out of darkness into light; out of hidden darkness, and out of captivity unto freedom.

26 A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.

27 Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

28 And he shall bring them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers; and he shall do whatsoever work I shall command him.

29 And I will make him great in mine eyes, for he shall do my work; and he shall be great like unto him who I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel, out of the land of Egypt; for a seer will I raise up to deliver my people out of the land of Egypt; and he shall be called Moses. And by this name he shall know that he is of thy house; for he shall be nursed by the king’s daughter, and shall be called her son.

30 And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days;

31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to a knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

32 And out of weakness shall he be made strong, in that day when my work shall go forth among all my people, which shall restore them, who are of the house of Israel, in the last days.

33 And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.

34 And the Lord sware unto Joseph that he would preserve his seed forever, saying, I will raise up Moses, and a rod shall be in his hand, and he shall gather together my people, and he shall lead them as a flock, and he shall smite the waters of the Red Sea with his rod.

35 And he shall have judgment, and shall write the word of the Lord. And he shall not speak many words, for I will write unto him my law by the finger of mine own hand. And I will make a spokesman for him, and his name shall be called Aaron.

36 And it shall be done unto thee in the last days also, even as I have sworn. Therefore, Joseph said unto his brethren, God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land, unto the land which he sware unto Abraham, and unto Isaac, and to Jacob.

37 And Joseph confirmed many other things unto his brethren, and took an oath of the children of Israel, saying unto them, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.

38 So Joseph died when he was an hundred and ten years old; and they embalmed him, and they put him in a coffin in Egypt; and he was kept from burial by the children of Israel, that he might be carried up and laid in the sepulchre with his father. And thus they remembered the oath which they sware unto him.

As anyone can readily see, Joe Smith fabricated a huge addition to this chapter ending in Genesis. Would one of you so ‘scholarly’ Mormonism Apologists like to tell us from whence Joe translated this long addition to Genesis? What text did he consult, or did he just ‘hear it from God and write it down for your edification … which edification you deem so secret that you do not tout it? Technically, is this Smithism ‘prophecy’ or edification for the confused, as if this is a ‘better translation‘?

Ana Marie Cox

"..Her novel Dog Days, ISBN 1-59448-901-7, a satire of Washington D.C. for which she was reportedly paid $250,000, was published on January 6, 2006. As of March 2006, it had sold 5,000 copies, according to Nielsen book sales tracking figures.[citation needed] On Thursday, July 27, 2006 she was named the Washington editor of Time.com. She also writes The Ana Log on the Time web site.

On April 12, 2007, Cox claimed on Time magazine's website that she agreed to appear on Don Imus's radio show, despite his history of racist and sexist comments, because she wanted to be considered part of the media elite. Wrote Cox: "I'm embarrassed to admit that it took Imus' saying something so devastatingly crass to make me realize that there just was no reason beyond ego to play along. I did the show almost solely to earn my media-elite merit badge." [1].."

Media-elite? Nope!...more like Bush bashing Skank for hire.

Especially the endless smears from Olbermann which are just outrageous. I saw that he had John Dean on his how the other day (by the way, Olbermann and John Deans are friends, I was told — just so that everyone is aware of that fact).

Hi! I'm trying to wear the worst outfit ever worn on national television - what do I win?