'Lost tribe of Israel' arrives in Jewish state

WorldNet Daily ^ | August 30, 2007 | Aaron Klein

[ladyL]

What you say is very interesting. May I ask your qualifications to speak to this issue?

[ChicagoHebrew]

What do you mean by qualifications. You don't need a degree in debunking garbage pseudo-science like British Israelism. You just need common sense. Do some research -- you'll see that: (1) DNA evidence conclusively shows no connection between present day Jews and Brits/Scots/Irish/Welsh; (2) No serious scholar believes that English/Gaelic/Welsh etc. has any connection with Hebrew or Aramaic; (3) Any supposed cultural connections are pretty broad and inconsequential.

It's telling that Brit-Israelism proponents cite scripture (out of context), which can of course be read 100 different ways. It's because all modern, objective science suggests that Brit-Israelism is nonsense.

On the other hand, the Samaritans claim descent from the Lost Tribes. Genetically, they are identical to Jews. They live in Eretz Yisrael. They still speak biblical Hebrew. They still practice a form of ancient Hebrew religion. That's a credible claim. Likewise, genetically Kurds and Jews are one population group (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1626606/posts). That suggests a very close relationship between the two groups, such as partial descent from the Lost Tribes (who were exiled precisely to the area that is now Kurdistan).

[ChicagoHebrew]

Note that even Davidy is forced to try to explain away (which he does poorly) the conclusive DNA evidence --

http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesDNA.html

[Zionist Conspirator]

Thanks for the ping. I hope you will read my post on this thread as well.

I have one complaint. You mentioned "Brits/Scots/Irish/Welsh." Britain is an island made up of three historical countries: England, Wales, and Scotland. Therefore the Welsh and Scots are Brits and did not need to be mentioned separately. And even more telling, you omitted the English altogether. It is easy to understand why. English national identity has been completely subsumed into British identity, whereas the Welsh and Scots still retain their own national identities. As an "English-American," I would like to see an end to this identification of "British" with "English" and "Great Britain" with "England." The absorption of Englishness into Britishness leaves the Anglo-Saxon peoples of the world without an ancestral homeland--practically the only people in this position. And believe me, this can lead to quite an inferiority complex.

So from now on, either use the word "Brits" to refer to English, Scots, and Welsh or else be sure to list the "English" along with the other two . . . okay?

You're right, British-Israelism is nonsense. However, I'm inclined to regard all these "lost tribes" as nonsense, wherever they come from. The Israelites are the Jews, period. British-Israelism (like its anti-Semitic offspring, "identity") is merely another attempt to reconcile the irreconcilable "two testaments." It really is hearbreaking the mental gymnastics chr*stians will go to to avoid questioning whether the "new testament" is valid. The TaNa"KH is so explicit about an eternal ethnic covenant, yet the Jews have (rightfully) rejected the claims of chr*stianity. Add this to British Protestantism and the belief that the KJV is "the real" Bible and you wind up with British Protestants as the Israelites. (And when I say "British" I mean Scots and Welsh as well as English. Ulster Protetants too, for that matter.)

Thanks for the ping.

[ChicagoHebrew]

However, I'm inclined to regard all these "lost tribes" as nonsense, wherever they come from.

Don't discount "all" Lost Tribes. There's no objective reason, for instance, to reject the oral tradition of Kurdish and Bukharian Jews that they descend from the Lost Tribes. And there are several things that support such a tradition, including the fact that they inhabit the exact areas that the Lost Tribes were originally exiled to. It's quite reasonable to assume that, just as most Jews descend directly from Jews who returned from the Babylonian Exile (Ashkenazim and most Sephardim) or stayed in Babylon (Iraqi and Persian Jews) and correspondingly descend from the Southern Kingdom, that certain small isolated communities not connected to the Babylonian Exile (such as the Kurds and Bukharians) might descend in large part from the Northern Kingdom.

In my mind, the aliyah of these communities (who self identify as Lost Tribes and have maintained a continuous practice of Judaism for thousands of years) fully fulfilled the Biblical prophecy of a remnant of the Lost Tribes returning.

Then there are other communities, like the Samaritans. The Samaritans inhabit the area of the Northern Kingdom, practice ancient Hebrew religion, speak Hebrew and Aramaic, are genetically identical to Jews, and claim descent from the Northern Tribes. Plus Assyrian historical records support the Samaritans' claim that only the nobility and upper classes were exiled, not the common people. In fact, the only thing that disputes their claim are a few politically charged passages in Kings, Chronicles and the Talmud that claim they are Cutheans who converted out of fear of lions.

Once you accept these claims, accepting other partial claims is logical. We know, for example, that there used to be millions of Samaritans. While many were killed during various revolts, that can't explain the total drop in numbers (there are only 600 today). The best explanation is that many wound up converting to Christianity or Islam, and that their descendants mixed with the descendants of local Arabs (such as the Nabateans), Greeks, Romans, and later invaders (such as Arab, Turkish and Crusader) to become today's Palestinians. Similarly, population stagnation suggests that many Kurdish Jews over the centuries converted to Islam, becoming one of the ancestor groups for today's Kurds.

[Zionist Conspirator]

In fact, the only thing that disputes their claim are a few politically charged passages in Kings, Chronicles and the Talmud that claim they are Cutheans who converted out of fear of lions.

The language of the holy books is authoritative, politically charged or not.

[OB1kNOb]

I thought is was the lost 12 tribes not 10. One for each of the apostles.

....er....uh...or something like that ;-)

[SunkenCiv]

This topic was posted 8/30/2007, thanks NYer.