Posted on 08/31/2007 11:21:11 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
VERY INTERESTING ... thought provoking ... hmmmmm
glad to rattle your cage ;0)
The German Dolphin diesel submarine can operate on batteries for 3 days from what I have heard. In 3 days that is a long distance they can cover. Anyone know exacting how far they can go in 3 days?
The US just does not have enough Nuke subs to cover the possible number of subs China can use at one time. That is a serious situation.
“The US just does not have enough Nuke subs to cover the possible number of subs China can use at one time. That is a serious situation.”
Well, i suppose if you count all the sub countermeasures of the US military though, they would probably be able to cover the risk of China’s sub fleet. As soon as far east starts to produce AC carriers, I start viewing them as an interested enemy.
I would suspect that the Diesel Subs are perfect for a nations coast guard submarine command. For deep blue long rang patrols that the Russians and Americans count on to project the MAD doctrine..........no thanks. Knee Deep navy use only IMO.
* Dolphin 5/1998
* Leviathan 1999
* Tekumah 1999
The first two (Dolphin + Leviathan) were donated by Germany, only the third (Tekumah) was purchased by Israel (Germany still paid for half of the costs). During the first Gulf War, German firms were accused of helping Iraq with her chemical weapons program, which led to protests in both Germany and Israel. To calm Israeli feelings, compensate Israel for economical losses and keep German shipyards occupied, Helmut Kohl decided to donate the two submarines.[2] The Dolphins have replaced the aging Gal class submarines which served in the Israeli navy since the late-1970’s.
On July 6, 2006, the Government of Germany decided to pay an advance to start the construction, about 170 millions euro. The two submarines will cost, overall, around 1.3 billion euros, of which one third will be paid by Germany.[1] The first one is scheduled to be completed in 2012.
is a non-nuclear (SSK) type of submarine developed and constructed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW), Germany for the Israeli Navy. It is based on the export-only German 209 class submarines, but heavily modified and enlarged and is thus not seen as a member of the 209 family. The Dolphin boats are considered among the most sophisticated and capable conventional submarines in the world.
Israel signed a contract with ThyssenKrupp to purchase two additional submarines from its HDW subsidiary. The two new boats will be an upgraded version of the old Dolphins, and are going to feature an Air-independent propulsion system, similar to the one used on U214 submarines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_class_submarine
Yes, piston engines are loud... but air-independent fuel cell technology is quieter than a nuclear reactor. The French Skorpene boats will be fitted with that system.
I was thinking the same thing. Does the author know of the Virginia or the latest mods to 688 boats?
and a couple of weeks ago by some nut job.
I think you are incorrect - at least about some DB boats. The French (I think) one uses hydrogen peroxide and runs the diesels underwater.Others use liquid oxygen.
“Functioning like an RPG, meaning creating lots of expensive damage at a low cost. RPGs and anti-tank rockets have neutralized Israel’s armor, neutralized that costly advantage. Small diesel subs can wreck our “armor” of the high seas, our aircraft carriers”
Mega bump. How many BILLIONS of dollars is being pumped into the CVN Jerry Ford? From the looks of this article it’ll be cost effective for China to simply throw a dozen disel’s her way with disasterous results on our end. And then there’s the worry over PLA cruise missiles which can be manufactured for a pittance and which it seems we have no defense against!
These diesel boats are child’s play next to SeaWolf and Virginia class.
Nope.In addition to classic D/E propulsion,the new French subs use a mixture of liquid oxygen & ethanol to run a steam turbine.Almost all major AIP systems use liquid oxygen as one of the components(The air).The Swedes use a mix of liquid 02 & diesel fuel,while the German Siemens AIP uses H2-02 fuel cells.
Finally, some good news.
Well on paper they are child’s play!!!The 2 nuc subs are twice as long,weigh almost 5 times more,have a crew which is over 3 times larger & roughly carry twice the armament........
A DE on AIP is quiet! Operating on dead quiet in that mode, there are no moving parts. In that mode they are as quiet and in some cases, quiter than our nucs.
But they do not have speed or staying power and so their usefulness in the blue water is limited compared to the nucs. In addition, once they announce their presence they are toast.
Just the same, the US Navy is taking the threat very seriously. We have leased the crew and equipment of one of our allies with very quiet AIP DEs and are using them to develop counter measures and tactics against these vessels even when they are at their strongest. We dare not underestimate them...and I believe our Navy is not and will be prpared in the event of any hostilities...ie. the Formosa Straits.
The first real AIP system,the German ‘Walter’ system used H202 as the oxidizer.
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