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Foes of IRS seek friends on campaign trail (Fair Tax backers stand out)
Charlotte Observer ^ | Aug. 31, 2007 | JIM MORRILL

Posted on 09/02/2007 6:42:46 AM PDT by Man50D

When Republican Mike Huckabee met supporters at Knights Stadium last week, more than two dozen showed up wearing the uniform of a group trying to flex its muscle in the presidential primaries.

Dressed in white shirts with "Fair Tax" logos, they're part of a growing movement in South Carolina and around the country pushing for drastic overhaul of the nation's tax laws.

Their group, Americans for Fair Taxation, would abolish the federal income tax and Internal Revenue Service and repeal the 16th Amendment that authorizes them. They would replace it all with a 23 percent national sales tax.

Thousands of Fair Tax supporters rallied in May outside the Republican presidential debate in Columbia. A month later, more than 100 waved signs as would-be candidate Fred Thompson arrived there for a speech.

"We really think that the winner of the South Carolina presidential primary will be a Fair Tax supporter," said John Steinberger, a Charleston teacher and the group's state director.

A handful of wealthy Houston businessmen started the group more than a decade ago. The idea was popularized in a 2005 book co-authored by Neal Boortz, whose syndicated radio show airs on WBT.

Congressional proponents include Charlotte Republican Rep. Sue Myrick. She's among 63 co-sponsors of a House bill that would enact those changes.

Supporters argue that by closing loopholes and taxing what people spend, not what they earn, the sales tax would be more fair. They acknowledge that a sales tax is regressive, falling most heavily on the poor who spend a greater share of income. They say the government would make payments to the poor to help them pay the new tax.

Critics say the change is unrealistic and unworkable, and would create an accounting nightmare that would fall heavily on state governments ill-prepared to handle it.

"

(Excerpt) Read more at charlotte.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fairtax; sc2008
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To: xcamel

You still haven’t read the FT book have you?


61 posted on 09/03/2007 6:26:48 AM PDT by Jacquerie (All Muslims are suspect.)
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To: Jacquerie
"The prebate is political sop to the socialists to take care of necessities up to the so-called poverty level."

You obviously bought that "sop" hook line and sinker.

"You should take the time to read the book before you show your ignorance."

Oh, I did. Unlike you, I just don't believe everything they claim.

Use your brain. Think! Prices remain the same. Take home pay remains the same. The poor are no worse off than they were before. That $2 loaf of bread is still $2, right? The Fair Tax simply made the hidden taxes visible, right?

So why do the poor need $500 per month? To offset ... what?

Explain that before you start throwing around the term "ignorant".

62 posted on 09/03/2007 6:50:20 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Jacquerie

thought so...


63 posted on 09/03/2007 7:00:21 AM PDT by xcamel (FDT/2008 -- talk about it >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: Jacquerie
Wealthy do not stash, they or their parents got wealthy by investing.

In 1998, Merrill Lynch estimated that world wide, 5 trillion dollars was stashed in off shore accounts and that amount represent nearly a third of the wealthy's savings.

However, that's not the point.

The point is that a 30% consumption tax will be distortionary. It will change people's behavior. The effects will be good for some and bad for others (not just tax attorneys). The wealthy will find ways to consume that avoids the tax, just as they find ways now to avoid the income tax, corporate taxes, or whatever.

Ah, the golden age

Without the assorted taxes on capital and income, investment will flow in volumes unimaginable even in the 19th century.

It was also the age of recessions, depressions, gave rise to the labor movement, and ultimately - the income tax.

64 posted on 09/03/2007 7:31:58 AM PDT by lucysmom
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To: xcamel
Perhaps we should rename the FairTax the "Have Your Cake and Eat It Too Tax", or the "Don't Worry, Be Happy Tax".
65 posted on 09/03/2007 7:43:53 AM PDT by lucysmom
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To: xcamel
Why is it?

If the Fair Tax is so simple, why do the Fair Taxers keep insisting we "read the book" or "read the legislation" rather than just answering the question? Or, "the answer can be found in FAQ# 9,682".

Steve Forbes never told me to read a book. He told me to subtract $36,000 from my gross income and multiply by .17.

66 posted on 09/03/2007 7:44:51 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: lucysmom; robertpaulsen

“Suckers born every minute Tax”


67 posted on 09/03/2007 7:52:00 AM PDT by xcamel (FDT/2008 -- talk about it >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: xcamel

I can’t guarantee that federal spending won’t get out of control with the fairtax. Huckabee’s literature states that when he ended his term as Arkansas’ governor, the state had a surplus of more than $800 million.

Huckabee’s website states that he was against the immigration bill that the U.S. Senate debated this year because it would have given amnesty. Huckabee says that he wants ICE employees to deport as many illegal as possible, as quickly as possible.


68 posted on 09/03/2007 8:41:44 AM PDT by PhilCollins
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To: robertpaulsen
Steve Forbes never told me to read a book. He told me to subtract $36,000 from my gross income and multiply by .17.

Oh, so you're ok with a tax as long as it starts out simple. What if it grows into a 60,000 page monster? Do you think it should be abolished? If so why would you want to start all over with one of those monsters?

69 posted on 09/03/2007 11:43:00 AM PDT by groanup (Limited government is the answer. What's the question?)
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To: groanup
"Oh, so you're ok with a tax as long as it starts out simple."

It could be as complex as you want as long as it's small. As I said in my post #52, cut spending, repeal the 16th, and go back to tariffs and excise taxes.

IF we're going to make a change, then I'd prefer the least disruptive and least controversial -- a flat tax. Either a flat tax that everyone pays or a flat tax with some deduction. If the latter, then those who are exempt from paying taxes also are exempt from voting. I'm not going to have non-tax-payers voting to increase my taxes.

If I were King.

70 posted on 09/03/2007 12:46:31 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: groanup

It is exactly what would happen with any form of tax replacement. Human nature is human nature, and politicians will always be politicians.


71 posted on 09/03/2007 2:48:12 PM PDT by xcamel (FDT/2008 -- talk about it >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: xcamel
...politicians will always be politicians.

Correct. Which brings us back to one of the fundamental differences between the FairTax and the flat tax. The flat tax can be hidden by withholding. The FairTax is money out of your pocket - very well telegraphed - what, five times a day for most people?

72 posted on 09/03/2007 2:53:53 PM PDT by groanup (Limited government is the answer. What's the question?)
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To: groanup
What you refuse to admit is that it doesn't work in reality. The critters will mess with the rates, the prebates, set up exemptions and all the rest.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

73 posted on 09/03/2007 2:57:56 PM PDT by xcamel (FDT/2008 -- talk about it >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: xcamel
"The critters will mess with the rates, the prebates, set up exemptions and all the rest."

They can increase the prebate 20% (in an election year, of course) without increasing the Fair Tax rate by simply declaring that the new poverty level is now 20% higher. Before you know it, poverty will be defined as income of $100,000 or less.

The proposed prebate is nothing more than a vote getter. As I demonstrated, it's not necessary to "offset" taxes for the poor. If they use it that way once, they'll use it that way again.

74 posted on 09/03/2007 3:08:18 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
All one would have to do is look at the SCHIP program for “children” - families > 250% of the poverty rate which is nearly $90 K, and “children” up to 25 years old qualify. (keep in mind there are places where 25 year olds are grandparents)
75 posted on 09/03/2007 3:12:40 PM PDT by xcamel (FDT/2008 -- talk about it >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: lucysmom
Perhaps we should rename the FairTax the "Have Your Cake and Eat It Too Tax", or the "Don't Worry, Be Happy Tax".

Feel free to name it anything you want. I'm thinking "Grow the tax base by almost double and more than double the number of payers to reduce the tax burden of legal participants in the income tax system".

Of course, those who currently do not legally participate in today's tax system will see an increase.

76 posted on 09/03/2007 3:15:41 PM PDT by Principled (Vaporize the "Divide and Conquer" taxes - Have everyone pay the same marginal rate!. NRST!)
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To: Man50D

77 posted on 09/03/2007 3:18:06 PM PDT by RightWhale (It's Brecht's donkey, not mine)
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To: robertpaulsen
They can increase the prebate 20% (in an election year, of course) without increasing the Fair Tax rate...

Yes, they could - and I'd like that! But why would they?

If they increase the rebate everyone gets a tax cut...and so would everyone else!

...it's not necessary to "offset" taxes for the poor.

I agree - and the income tax does it, but the nrst doesn't. The nrst exempts ALL spending below poverty level for everyone rich and poor alike. Income is not related to the rebate on necessity spending.

78 posted on 09/03/2007 3:22:18 PM PDT by Principled (Vaporize the "Divide and Conquer" taxes - Have everyone pay the same marginal rate!. NRST!)
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To: Principled
"and more than double the number of payers"

Hah! Everyone who buys something today pays hidden taxes equal to the Fair Tax -- the Fair Tax simply makes them visible, remember?

Double the number of payers? Halve the number of payers, perhaps, as people switch over to used goods or cheat the system.

79 posted on 09/03/2007 3:24:21 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
Hah! Everyone who buys something today pays hidden taxes equal to the Fair Tax.

UH oh PR - you're off the reservation. Your handlers didn't tell you that business taxes per se plus compliance come to 9% of prices? THey're the ones who insist on it - I drove them to it.

Now you will have to decide RP. Do you believe the 9% or the 23%? I predict you will refuse to answer.

80 posted on 09/03/2007 3:29:12 PM PDT by Principled (Vaporize the "Divide and Conquer" taxes - Have everyone pay the same marginal rate!. NRST!)
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