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Fred's Federalism Clashes with Potential Allies
FoxNews ^ | 9/5/07 | papasmurf

Posted on 09/05/2007 3:43:28 PM PDT by papasmurf

The influential Arlington Group, a coalition of prominent leaders of the so-called "religious right, has decided to withhold their planned support for the fledgling campaign of former Senator Fred Thompson.

(Excerpt) Read more at update08.foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: carlcameron; foxnews; fredthompson
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To: G8 Diplomat

out=ought


121 posted on 09/06/2007 7:48:52 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: G8 Diplomat

In that case, there’s no need to present an argument that the need to enforce morality overrides the constitution.


122 posted on 09/06/2007 7:52:44 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Well here’s what I meant by that: If the states should be the ones to impose bans, they aren’t doing their job. Mass and Iowa for example come to mind first. So if they won’t, the federal gov’t should intervene in an ‘emergency’ situation (that is, one where basic things like life and marriage are ubder attack) and ban it on a national level. However I suppose that whole argument is moot because of Tailgunner’s post that I mentioned—the states have a role in the amendment process.


123 posted on 09/06/2007 7:57:19 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: G8 Diplomat
If they pose a threat to people and to society, they’re “big” sins.

The question was who gets to decide whether they're "big" sins, not on what basis you decide they are. Personally, I'd say sloth and gluttony can pose a threat to people and society, but I don't think the federal government was intended or authorized to exercise control over those things.

124 posted on 09/06/2007 7:57:43 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: G8 Diplomat

Under what enumerated power would you propose the federal government enact such a ban, assuming it becomes necessary?


125 posted on 09/06/2007 8:00:33 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: SuziQ
I’ve never heard of the Arlington Group. What are they, and what do they do?

It's a coalition of the leaders of all of the Christian Right organizations. The most prominent member is James Dobson of Focus On The Family. Their goal is take over the Republican Party.

They're the "America is a Christian nation" crowd.
.
126 posted on 09/06/2007 8:04:31 AM PDT by radioman
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To: papasmurf

127 posted on 09/06/2007 8:04:52 AM PDT by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: tacticalogic

Let me rephrase that: if they pose an immediate threat to people. Gluttony is not an immediate threat the way murder is, and people can change their minds about it and quit. It’s unlikely that a killer is going to change his mind in the middle of a gunfight or right before an abortion. Also, gluttony is something done in your private home, where the govt has no business. Murder and abortion and gay unions and all the others are done on the public scale, where the govt does have influence.

Also the govt has the choice of authorizing funding to things like stem cell research. They are in the position to ban it, and should. They are not, however, in the position to ban gluttony.


128 posted on 09/06/2007 8:05:22 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: tacticalogic

There is no power written in the constitution. Instead that power is written in a higher governance; basic morality and good and evil.

Now before you ask why we shouldn’t ban everything that goes against this, see post 128.


129 posted on 09/06/2007 8:06:54 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: G8 Diplomat

Also the founders never gave anyone the specific power of banning homosexuality, because it was assumed that everyone abided by basic moral laws and didn’t do that.


130 posted on 09/06/2007 8:08:04 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: G8 Diplomat
Let me rephrase that: if they pose an immediate threat to people.

While I don't like the idea, I'm not seeing gay civil unions posing an immediate threat to people. You're opening a door to a standard for ignoring the Constituion and the separation of authority that's entirely too subjective to suit me.

131 posted on 09/06/2007 8:12:56 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Gay marriage is an immediate threat to themselves, and done on a public scale.

Because it’s a public operation, the govt has the authority to intervene.


132 posted on 09/06/2007 8:14:25 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: G8 Diplomat
Also the founders never gave anyone the specific power of banning homosexuality, because it was assumed that everyone abided by basic moral laws and didn’t do that.

When you start making claims about the founder's reasons for what was and wasn't written into the Constitution, I'm going to ask for references and sources.

133 posted on 09/06/2007 8:15:41 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: G8 Diplomat
Gay marriage is an immediate threat to themselves, and done on a public scale.

In what way is it an immediate threat to themselves? What risks do they assume by going through a farce of a ceremony that they weren't already assuming before that?

134 posted on 09/06/2007 8:19:34 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

OK, that statement I can withdraw from my argument, as you are right that it was an assumption on my part.


135 posted on 09/06/2007 8:22:13 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: tacticalogic

It opens the door for them, now that they’re “married” to engage in gay behavior in their private life. Also the person presiding at the wedding is setting a bad example in doing such a thing and is probably an advocate for gay rights.


136 posted on 09/06/2007 8:24:34 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: G8 Diplomat

It’s also a danger to society, because gays can’t have children thus they give nothing back to society yet they live off it—they’re like parasites.


137 posted on 09/06/2007 8:27:53 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: G8 Diplomat
It opens the door for them, now that they’re “married” to engage in gay behavior in their private life.

You expect me to believe that this would actually stop them from doing anything in private they wouldn't do anyway?

138 posted on 09/06/2007 8:30:44 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

That depends on the person—whether they believe they should wait to get “married” first.


139 posted on 09/06/2007 8:32:27 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (It's campaign season. Let's rumble!)
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To: papasmurf
The influential Arlington Group

If you have to call yourself "influential", you aren't.

140 posted on 09/06/2007 8:36:22 AM PDT by steve-b (It's hard to be religious when certain people don't get struck by lightning.)
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