The new British empire? UK plans to annex south Atlantic

The Guardian,U.K ^ | Saturday September 22, 2007 | Owen Bowcott

[sukhoi-30mki]

The new British empire? UK plans to annex south Atlantic

Owen Bowcott Saturday September 22, 2007 The Guardian

Britain is preparing territorial claims on tens of thousands of square miles of the Atlantic Ocean floor around the Falklands, Ascension Island and Rockall in the hope of annexing potentially lucrative gas, mineral and oil fields, the Guardian has learned. The UK claims, to be lodged at the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, exploit a novel legal approach that is transforming the international politics of underwater prospecting.

Britain is accelerating its process of submitting applications to the UN - which is fraught with diplomatic sensitivities, not least with Argentina - before an international deadline for registering interests.

Relying on detailed geological and geophysical surveys by scientists and hydrographers, any state can delineate a new "continental shelf outer limit" that can extend up to 350 miles from its shoreline. Data has been collected for most of Britain's submissions and Chris Carleton, head of the law of the sea division at the UK Hydrographic Office and an international expert on the process, said preliminary talks on Rockall are being held in Reykjavik, Iceland, next week. Mr Carleton believes the Falklands claim has the most potential for acrimonious political fallout. Britain and Argentina fought over the islands 25 years ago, and the value of the oil under the sea in the region is understood to be immense: seismic tests suggest there could be up to 60m barrels under the ocean floor.

Britain has been granted licences for exploratory drilling around the islands within the normal 200-mile exploration limit and any new claim to UNCLCS would extend territorial rights further into the Atlantic.

"It would be beyond the 200-mile limit but less than 350 miles," said Mr Carleton,

[JackRyanCIA]

The new British empire?

I think they better keep an eye on what they have left. The Scots as always are grumbling again.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

Is nutty Charles on the loose again?

[ExpatGator]

“The Scots as always are grumbling again.”

Yeah, they should just shut up and continue to wear that hundreds of years old yoke. The British hounded my forefathers through the Highlands and eventually out of our homeland. Now the P.C. crazy Brits are dragging Scotland into their nightmarish vision of the future. I hope they break from the crown and follow the lead of the Irish.

[Starwolf]

Me thinks all the quality Scots left several generations back. Scotland is a net consumer of resources and would resemble Zimbabwe if it gained independence.

It is a truly sorry state to see my ancestral homeland in

“Caisteal Foulis na théine”

[ExpatGator]

Sadly you could be right. However, that was said about Ireland as well. It has taken them a while, but they have damned their naysayers. Look at them now. The economic engine of English speaking Europe.

“Caisteal Foulis na théine” You’re a Munro then?

“Per Mare Per Terras”

[lowbridge]

The new British empire? UK plans to annex south Atlantic

Sorry Brits. That all belongs to us.

Why?

Because I'm an American and I said so, that's why.

[Starwolf]

You’re a Munro then? Indeed I am. 4th generation US, via Nova Scotia. I have a formal kilt and more importantly a dirk that has been in the family for several generations and blooded in combat. Been known to wear both for formal occasions, including mess nights. Get the occasional catty comment until they spot the dirk.

[Starwolf]

You’re a Munro then? Indeed I am. 4th generation US, via Nova Scotia. I have a formal kilt and more importantly a dirk that has been in the family for several generations and blooded in combat. Been known to wear both for formal occasions, including mess nights. Get the occasional catty comment until they spot the dirk.

[Publius6961]

Nothing novel about this.
Russia is claiming the North Pole and underwater territory up to the Canadian cintinental shelf.

The "Ridge" the Russians keep claiming happens also to be attached to Canada, so it will be interesting to see why the other argument isn't equally valid, that Canada owns the undewater ocean floor up to the Aisan Continental shelf...

[Ben Ficklin]

Denmark also has a claim to the Lomonosov Ridge.

[Conservative4Ever]

Wouldn’t it be glorious if they did. Am also of Scottish blood and a little Irish thrown in just to liven up the mix.

[Publius6961]

Denmark also has a claim to the Lomonosov Ridge.,p>Well, then, they shoulda stuck a Danish name on it a long time ago...

Just saying.

[Publius6961]

Denmark also has a claim to the Lomonosov Ridge.

Well, then, they shoulda stuck a Danish name on it a long time ago...

Just saying.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"Get the occasional catty comment until they spot the dirk."

I was told by a lady that Scotsmen have mightily impressive dirks.

*cough*

[britemp]

‘The British hounded my forefathers through the Highlands and eventually out of our homeland.’

The scots are British - scotland is part of Britain, therefore they must’ve hounded themselves! Which is exactly what they did, clan on clan while the English watched.

‘I hope they break from the crown and follow the lead of the Irish.’

Speaking as an Englishman, I concur completely. The sooner England can be rid of the people’s socialist republic of Jockland the better. Without Scots Labour votes, the Conservatives would have won every election in England since World War 2.

Sadly the scottish nationalists. despite wanting independence, despise free-market America so much instead of electing their own president, they have asked if they can keep HM the Queen as head of state and stay in the commonwealth! :(

Perhaps you could make them the 51st state of the union and the first entirely socialist state of the union? :)

[britemp]

‘Sorry Brits. That all belongs to us.

Why?

Because I’m an American and I said so, that’s why.’

LOL! You want to get yourself some decent land borders before you start worrying about extending your sea borders into British territories! :)

[lowbridge]

You want to get yourself some decent land borders

Hey, the guy who gave us the Canadian-American border was drunk at the time. Legally all of Canada belongs to us, as does the Atlantic Ocean. ;-)

[britemp]

‘The economic engine of English speaking Europe.’

LOL! The whole of the Republic of Ireland has half the population of the city of London and has a GDP of $180bn compared to $480bn for just the city of London.

Their growth since the EU started pouring euros into them has been impressive, but they are still very small potatoes globally speaking.

[britemp]

‘Hey, the guy who gave us the Canadian-American border was drunk at the time. Legally all of Canada belongs to us, as does the Atlantic Ocean. ;-)’

I seem to recall your govt starting a war in 1812 to cover up the fact that it was bankrupt which hoped to change the Canadian border, but failed! :)

[Reily]

Unfortunately the present days Scots are determined to drag the UK into a “socialist utopia”.
You would be hard-pressed to find a place in Scotland where socialism is not advocated with enthusiasm.
Getting back at the English by making the UK more socialistic is not my idea of revenge!

[lowbridge]

I seem to recall your govt starting a war in 1812

Hey, we were only trying to right a wrong and take back what rightfully belonged to us in the first place.

Heh.

[ExpatGator]

You have too little faith in people and the value of liberty. Freedom means one has to take care of oneself. You folks did not give us upstart Americans much of a chance of success either.

[ExpatGator]

Give them their true self-rule. Let their flailing attempts at socialism fail, as it surely will. Then they can join the world as a free country, as they should be.

Granted, the Scots at present are like a retarded stepchild, undisciplined and dependent. That comes with centuries of being made dependent. England’s methods and political system have everything to do with that dependency.

[ExpatGator]

“Perhaps you could make them the 51st state of the union and the first entirely socialist state of the union? :)”

Sorry, that honor is already taken by Massachusetts. ;)

[Starwolf]

‘The British hounded my forefathers through the Highlands and eventually out of our homeland.’

The scots are British - scotland is part of Britain, therefore they must’ve hounded themselves! Which is exactly what they did, clan on clan while the English watched.

your ignorances of history is breathtaking...it rivals that of the liberals running for president. Start with reading about Edwards Longshanks and go from there...

[ExpatGator]

Technically he is correct, as it is all the “British Isles”. Beyond that he is fair game!

Notice he does not capitalize Scotland.

[RedMonqey]

The scots are British - scotland is part of Britain, therefore they must?ve hounded themselves! Which is exactly what they did, clan on clan while the English watched.

I think what britemp means that it was the English you should point the blame at hounding your (mine too)Scots ancestry. And yes some Scot nobles thought themselves as more kin to English Royalty than fellow Scotsmen and sided with the Crown against fellow countrymen.

At least that's what I think he means...

And unless you're an native of the British Isles I'd be a bit more hesitant about lecturing a Brit about his history .

Just my opinion and it's worth every penny ya paid for. ;_)

[Starwolf]

And unless you're an native of the British Isles I'd be a bit more hesitant about lecturing a Brit about his history.

For many Americans you may be right, but some of us have strong family ties to there and in my case an advanced degree in History with a specialization in the Elizabethan times. You should hear my undergraduate lectures on Mary Queen of Scots.

There are also different views of that time period among historians, however, several things are commonly agreed to...the Scots historically had their own king and were conquered (repeatedly) by the English. Eventually the Scottish nobility were co-opted by the English and via that, became part of the United Kingdom, winning peace without major bloodshed..

In Europe today, with the fundamental loss of sovereignty that the EU represents, the concept of a Free Scotland is almost silly.

[Windcatcher]

From the article:

"Britain is preparing territorial claims on tens of thousands of square miles of the Atlantic Ocean floor around the Falklands, Ascension Island and Rockall in the hope of annexing potentially lucrative gas, mineral and oil fields, the Guardian has learned. The UK claims, to be lodged at the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, exploit a novel legal approach that is transforming the international politics of underwater prospecting.

Picture of Rockall:



Maybe it's just me, but to me this claim isn't just "thin", it's anorexic.

[Mangani]

Well said britemp. The sooner the Scottish stop leeching off the English taxpayer the better.

[uksupport1]

The Scots are the most left-wing PC people in the UK. As Britemp said, the Tories would comfortably win most elections if it weren’t for our Scottish voters.

As for Ireland: you want Scotland to be absorbed into a European super-state with the EU flag flying more often than the Saltire?

[Starwolf]

Wait until you get a kilt check done by a buxom lassie...

Proper procedure is well described here: http://www.mdrfwench.org/kilt.htm

[Rikstir]

I reckon it was the ‘English’ that hounded your forefathers through the highlands. Just a suggestion, as we Brits weren’t really invented yet. It kind of makes sense for such a small island to be united under one banner. Scotlands economy would struggle if they got independence, and for one thing their children wouldn’t be able to have free university education. Its thanks to the taxpayers from England that they can afford such a luxury. One of the perks of being part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Hey, for an Englishman like me, the idea of not having to prop up the scottish economy with my money sounds good. Perhaps I could send my children to Uni for free, instead of the fortune its cost at the moment.

[fieldmarshaldj]

I’m 1/4th Scot, and I don’t think I’d have the courage to wear a kilt (authentically or otherwise). :-P

[Starwolf]

I’ve gotten considerable comment on mine over the years.

I always wear it to mess nights where at least someone will be sent to the grog blow over an insensitive comment or two. As a field marshall, I assume you would appreciate that

[RedMonqey]

iFor many Americans you may be right, but some of us have strong family ties to there and in my case an advanced degree in History with a specialization in the Elizabethan times.

Speaking as an fellow American I can attest to your statement about the ignorance of our own history and to find someone who can debate British History, much less a distinct period of British history is rare indeed.

You are indeed a unique person.

[the scotsman]

1—The Scots ARE British!.England/the English does not mean Britain/the British.

The Scots,Welsh and Northern Irish are all British.

2—Yoke?...Scotland JOINED the UK in 1707, unlike the Irish and Welsh who were there as victims of earlier English conquest.

Though repeatedly occupied, Scotland was never permanently conquered by England and had always expelled the English after bloody struggles from 1018 to 1640.Hence the invitation to join 1707 which saved England more bloodshed from another invasion of Scotland(and vice versa).

If you mean yoke in a political sense, then you have the right to refer to it in that term(though I would disagree), but to refer to it in a historical sense is simply incorrect and bad history.

3—Sadly, the worst PC excesses are in Scotland, thanks to our uber-socialist viewpoint and politicians.

[the scotsman]

Utter crap.

And I say that as a staunch British Unionist who wishes Scotland to remain IN the UK...

Scotland COULD go it alone, the question is whether it would be better off alone or as part of the UK.To suggest it would be some dirtpoor country is utter bilge.

Have you actually ever been here?....

Scotland does and would have large natural resources,added to its manufacturing and business infrastructure.And independent Scotland would do well,however I and many believe that it better off using those resources as part of the greater UK/British state.

And I will treat the ‘quality Scots’ remark with the utter contempt such an idiotic remark deserves...

[the scotsman]

Mate, what do you think its like for Conservatives here who can see the damage ‘West of Scotland’, Tommy Sheridan type socialism has done?.

Could do without referring to us as Jockland though.Never sure whether that is affectionate or contempt.

I thought you liked Scotland and hoped we might change our politics and be part of the UK.

[the scotsman]

Mate, I have a BA in History from Glasgow University(specialisation of Ancient/Medieval Scots History) and have also lectured/written.

And I concur with the posters point.You of all people should know what Britain and ‘the British’ means.I am astonished that a historian of Britain would not know Britain/British does NOT mean ‘England’.

And you of all people should know that some of the darker moments in British/Scottish history post 1707,such as the Highland Clearances, were mainly or at the least equally the work of Scots landowners. To blame ‘the English’ for the Highland Clearances is the worst ‘bad history’.

Not to mention the now forgotten ‘Lowland Clearances’ which were very much the work of a Scottish govt and nobility.

[the scotsman]

Even as a Unionist,can we knock off the ‘Scots subsidy’ myth?.

Lets start discussing this issue from a sensible level, no matter what we decide to do...

[the scotsman]

‘There are also different views of that time period among historians, however, several things are commonly agreed to...the Scots historically had their own king and were conquered (repeatedly) by the English. Eventually the Scottish nobility were co-opted by the English and via that, became part of the United Kingdom, winning peace without major bloodshed..’

The important factor is though that any ‘conquest’/occupation was temporary,and Scotland was never permanently conquered by England, unlike the Welsh or Irish(the former technically isnt even a country!).

This gave us some political leverage in 1707(if not economic thanks to Darien)to negotiate our way into the Union rather than be pressganged as a conquered nation.

[Starwolf]

Scotland is a resource sink for the UK and has been for some time. Without significant change it would have deficit as a nation. Its been run by the leftist ideologues for some time to its serious detriment. I can not see how any thinking person could support the local councils and those who are on them, thus my comment about quality Scots having saught refuge over the seas

I lived there while earning an advanced degree, visit regularly and have extensive family there. So yes, you can say I have been there.

As I stated earlier, under the EU the concept of national sovereignty is being seriously eroded, and independence will matter little in practical terms. However, I would greatly doubt that the EU would recognize an independent Scotland since it would be seen as another UK vote on the council.

I will admit that my Zimbabwe analogy was hyperbole.

[Rikstir]

im not really saying that the scottish economy is bereft. And with friends in the UK and the EU an independent Scotland would do ok.

Personally, I want the Scots to stay in the Union. They bring something different and the UK would be a poorer place without them. And in the end, all 3 nations and 1 province have given up a portion of national identity to maintain a collective strength.

After getting out of uni with £20,000 of debt, I was just a little gutted to discover free education north of the border.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Well I am 1/4 irish, and think that the Battle of Culloden was not very nice!

[Redleg Duke]

You can say that about all of Europe. The best in the gene pool went to the New World. The best remaining in the European gene pool was lost in the two world wars. What is left is predominantly socialist. Willing to sit on their collective butts and have the nanny state care for them.

Oh, there are a few exceptions, but thanks to Ted Kennedy and the RAT Pukes, they cannot emigrate to the USA. Only the ignorant debris (future RAT voters) from the 3rd world can get in. Few from Northern Europe.

[Pilsner]

Yeah, they should just shut up and continue to wear that hundreds of years old yoke. The British hounded my forefathers through the Highlands and eventually out of our homeland. Now the P.C. crazy Brits are dragging Scotland into their nightmarish vision of the future. I hope they break from the crown and follow the lead of the Irish.

Check your calendar. Its 2007, not 1297. The Scots, oil and all, are a drain on the Exchequer. The PM is a Scot, and Scottish MPs dictate local government policy for the English, while the English have no say in local affairs north of the border, as the Scottish Parliament manages those matters for Scotland. If the Scots want to "break with crown" the average Englishman will give them a hearty AMF.

[Pilsner]

Not to mention the now forgotten ‘Lowland Clearances’ which were very much the work of a Scottish govt and nobility

Also don't forget that the English did the exact same thing to themselves, with the enclosure of common lands. The whole process of going from a peasant family or three scratching out an existence on every half arable patch of land, to large, modern, farms that produce food for the city, was a terrible experience for those who lived through it, but it produced the modern world. Subsistence agriculture, however romantic some people think it looks in hindsight, or when showbiz airheads visit a third world hell hole and marvel at how small a "carbon footprint" the locals have, is not a pleasant way to spend your life.

[the scotsman]

Cheers for reply.

I would disagree about being a drain, in the strict sense,remember the billions in oil and other revenues that Scotland contributes.We contribute over 11% of Britain’s National Revenue whilst being 9% of the population.

I agree 100% with the rest of your letter.Scotland NEEDS to ‘go conservative’ and free market and break from its uber-socialism before it ever goes independent.You are correct that the latter would simply eat up any post independence economic growth.

p.s curious and interested as to:

1—your thoughts and experiences about Scotland and the Scots(be honest I dont mind,just be fair)
2-Where you have been when here
3—Family roots/ties.