Debating American Serfdom (government dependents outnumber private sector workers)

New York Times ^ | September 22, 2007 | Dan Mitchell

[goldstategop]

We all lose our freedom. As Mark Steyn says, since 1945 in the Western World, when people have been invited to make a choice between freedom and government care, they overwhelmingly vote for the latter. Too many people just want someone else to do the things for them they ought to be doing for themselves.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[durasell]

Too many people just want someone else to do the things for them they ought to be doing for themselves.

---

There is a balance. The extremes of either end of the spetrum are unhealthy for a society.

[goldstategop]

Therein lies the basis of the Democratic Party's power. People who either work for the state or receive some benefit from it. That's how the Left perpetuates its power.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[durasell]

spectrum

[goldstategop]

Drawing the line is difficult because people don't agree on where the line ought to be drawn. In an earlier era, when the reach of government in our lives was very limited, it was obvious where the line was. That's no longer evident today, when government is involved in practically every endeavor of life.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[durasell]

America has always been a brawl — a debate. The line moves all the time. In fact, that conflict is one of our strengths.

The danger as I see it now isn’t the debate itself, but the fact that the debate has been reduced to slogans and “bumper sticker” policy.

[durasell]

p.s.

I’m also not crazy about the fact that the “gubmint” has been labeled as an enemy of some kind by some folks. In fact, I hate that.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

“private-sector workers who owe their jobs to government”

That's me, and yet I like the idea of Constitutional, limited government, even if end up having to get another job. Silly me, I guess I was supposed to be some whiner who protects his goobermint-financed job above all other considerations. I obviously don't fit the plan.

[metesky]

IIRC, residents of DC had no federal vote and the exchange was that they paid no federal taxes either.

I say again, IIRC.

[TN4Liberty]

“Everywhere not constitutionally permitted. Let’s see, we can start by eliminating:

-Department of Agriculture

-Department of Health and Human Services

-Department of Energy...”

Actually, the Department of Energy manages the design, production, and control of nuclear weapons. I think we would have to consider that constitutional.

EPA and OSHA are cumbersome bureaucracies at their worst, but at their best serve a valuable function in protection of workers and the public from injury. I don’t think we want to start dumping raw chemical waste into the rivers, do we? The legislated requirements have to be implemented and enforced somewhere, so I wonder if your problem is with the agencies or with the laws they are tasked to enforce. That enforcement would reside somewhere. BATF is similar. They aren’t generally making up the laws.

If you want to eliminate the laws, that is a different matter, and the target should be the people who pass those laws, not those who enforce them.

[durasell]

ELIMINATE ALL GUBMINT AGENCIES, EXCEPT THE ONES THAT BENEFIT DURASELL!

[TN4Liberty]

LOL, and all of the 300M people in the country say the same thing, don’t they?

[jcparks]

BATF is similar. They aren’t generally making up the laws

Actually, they do. The BATF was originally a TAX collecting "Bureau" of the Treasury. At some point someone allowed them to carry firearms (although they aren't qualified to carry a calculator, let alone a firearm). Then, our esteemed CIC decided that they should be in Justice and thusly transferred... unconstitutionally.

The BATFE makes up their own rules and regulations on the whim, not based on any LAW. In fact, they change their policies like you and I change our socks...just ask any FFL owner. They make up the rules to fit their game.
Not only are they an unconstitutional branch of our fed-gov, they were "snuck-in" so as noone would notice.

They need to be eliminated through non finance of an unconstitutional "agency".

[lepton]

What makes you think the employer would give you the payroll tax they pay, rather than putting it in their pocket.

Realistically, they mostly won't...but increased pressure will cause their charged prices to drop and the money you earn will be worth more. You'll get a cut divided between both ends (and incrementally from a dozen other places) rather than one big dollop.

[zeugma]

Everywhere. Cut till it hurts. The best first step would be to freeze all budget growth. No automatic budget increases. No automatic adjustments for inflation. All budgets are fixed from now on for the next 25 years. Each department will figure out their own way to meet their budgets.

I would propose abolishing the federal department of education entirely.

No more college pell grants. Drastic cuts in student loans.

No more disaster relief. That’s what insurance companies are for.
Medicaid gets axed completely.
Crack down on SS benefits awarded for fraudulent disabilities. SS should be for senior citizens only.
All the assistance programs to young single mothers should be axed immediately.
All federal money to planned parenthood should be axed immediately.
All federal money to after school programs should be axed immediately.

I could go on. But the most important thing would be to freeze all budgets.

---

 

I'd support all of that. You'll find little support for those kind of cuts amongst the supports of the nanny state though.  

[zeugma]

In addition, outside of national security issues, no more closed door meetings or hearings. That goes for Congress and the Senate too.

---

And eliminate the concept of "black" budget items. 

[dragnet2]

Right now there are two classes in society. The entitled and coddled government workers and the private sector. They are another class of haves and are compensated and get long term gains beyond what their private sector counterpart does.,

I could not agree more. And this all controlling government expansion trend continues, as other here cite their alliance to this all encompassing, controlling entity.

Obviously there are some here on the payroll.

Government gets so big, ya got half the country on the payroll, as they stand on the sidelines cheering it on.

We're in heap big trouble in this country.

[Red Boots]

We lived without the EPA until 1972 and did just fine, for the most part. Pollution was treated as an infringement on property rights, and treated between right holders. That's how it should be taken care of. Now, you've got a huge environmental protection sector that lives off nailing people to the wall with these regulations. It's got to add thousands of dollars to everything, and most of the time, I don't think it actualy does much.

Example, I work for an environmental firm. We recently finished a clean-up project that cost the taxpayers of our state around $500,000. It cleaned some hydrocarbons out of groundwater, yes, but that groundwater was not a drinking water source, nor source of any other use.Eventually that groundwater may have flowed into a river, but no other uses exist downstream for probably 500 miles. The risk to public health was nill, and the cost of compliance was way over what any benefit could possibly be, and will continue to skyrocket since the site will now be monitored for ever after.

This is not an effective use of money, nor the talents of scientists. It happened soley because an EPA regulation was written, and is now enforced regardless of cost/benefit analysis. Multiply this by thousands of regualtions, and you've got a collassial waste of time, money and talent that ought to be going toward more effective uses.

[TN4Liberty]

I’m not here to defend the EPA, other than to say that some things they do are good. Certainly, they are a bloated bureaucracy.

But they arguably serve a constitutional function in addressing pollution issues between states. Again, if you don’t like the law, fire the lawmakers. I can’t equate the EPA with, say NPR or NEA which serve no apparent constitutional function.

[VOA]

This is not an effective use of money, nor the talents of scientists.

I've got to watch some old college buddies in their careers at
the EPA.

Each of them, with a B.S. in Chemistry from a smallish church
college soon put them in the level of >$100,000/yr "civil servants".

They are both talented...but I suspect they probably wouldn't have
done nearly as well if they'd managed to get private-sector jobs.