Debating American Serfdom (government dependents outnumber private sector workers)

New York Times ^ | September 22, 2007 | Dan Mitchell

[traviskicks]

Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.

[live+let_live]

Well, well, well. How convenient!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1900782/posts

I should have read down a couple of articles before I posted.

[tundra1946]

What makes you think the employer would give you the payroll tax they pay, rather than putting it in their pocket. After all, you will work for what you are getting now. How would you get them to give you a raise if their taxes go down?

[Skywalk]

So you’re strongly in favor of the current size of the government, then?

Or did I misread your post?

[durasell]

Can it make sense that there are more people working for the Dept. of Agriculture than there are farmers in the US?

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I don’t know the full scope of the Dept. of Agriculture’s responsibilities, but I do know they extend beyond looking after farmers. Fer instance, in the last 36 months, the Dept. of Agriculture has funneled nerly a billion dollars into providing high speed internet access to rural areas.

My opinion on the gubmint workers versus private sector is different than most. I believe there’s a place for gubmint work, but that folks have to pay attention to how the money is spent. That “tension” between the public and gubmint insures accountability.

[longtermmemmory]

Perhaps it is time for an anti-peonage amendment to go along with the indentured servitude amendment to the constitution.

In fact, the new bankruptcy reform act has a pending issue of peonage. (iow forcing those who want to simply liquidate all their non-exempt assets for their debts in ch 13 plans.)

[durasell]

I believe the size of gubmint has to expand and shrink as needed and dictated by circumstances. There’s no perfect recipe, but every expenditure as well as every cut must be justified.

[live+let_live]

“What makes you think the employer would give you the payroll tax they pay, rather than putting it in their pocket. After all, you will work for what you are getting now. How would you get them to give you a raise if their taxes go down?”

For the same reason all business don’t pay all workers minimum wage. It’s a free market. If you don’t pay competitive wages you lose your employees.

[mamelukesabre]

Here’s your justification...Taxes are too high, government spends too much, and is too big!

Therefore, cuts are in order.

Any questions?

[durasell]

Uh, yeah. Where do you propose making the cuts?

[mamelukesabre]

No it isn’t. It’s dead on. Anyone employed by the government is paid by tax dollars and thus is supported by the private sector.

I’m pretty sure there was a time when politicians and federal employees could not vote in elections. There was a time when Washington DC has NO ELECTORAL VOTES and therefore no citizens of DC voted in federal elections or had any representation in the government.

I think it’s time to get back to this concept.

[JSteff]

“What do you think are the odds of your goverment worker pension defaulting like so many private sector ones have? TWA, McDonnell Douglas are a couple here in St. Louis”

So are you stating that it is better that folks be on government pensions? Somewhere on FR there was an article about how insolvent MANY government pensions are.

But no worry. If a government pension is in trouble all they need to do is contact the msm, get together a bunch of senior criers and it will all be made right.

Those pensions are connected directly to the tax-payer teat and are NEVER in trouble.

[dragnet2]

Bookmark

[dragnet2]

I've read that outside the military, America now has upwards of 20,000,000 people on the government payroll, this includes city, local, state and federal governments.

That's 20 million.

[JSteff]

” the Dept. of Agriculture has funneled nerly a billion dollars into providing high speed internet access to rural areas.”

And how is that the job of government? Anything the government does costs 2 or 3 times as much (or more) than the private sector

[durasell]

Actually, the billion was given to private sector firms to offer the service. The dept. of agriculture saw it as akin to rural electrification.

[mamelukesabre]

Everywhere. Cut till it hurts. The best first step would be to freeze all budget growth. No automatic budget increases. No automatic adjustments for inflation. All budgets are fixed from now on for the next 25 years. Each department will figure out their own way to meet their budgets.

I would propose abolishing the federal department of education entirely.

No more college pell grants. Drastic cuts in student loans.

No more disaster relief. That’s what insurance companies are for.
Medicaid gets axed completely.
Crack down on SS benefits awarded for fraudulent disabilities. SS should be for senior citizens only.
All the assistance programs to young single mothers should be axed immediately.
All federal money to planned parenthood should be axed immediately.
All federal money to after school programs should be axed immediately.

I could go on. But the most important thing would be to freeze all budgets.

[kcar]

What makes you think the employer would give you the payroll tax they pay, rather than putting it in their pocket. After all, you will work for what you are getting now. How would you get them to give you a raise if their taxes go down?

The market sets the value of my worth to the employer. Let's say that's 108x. The employer sees that to pay me at 108x he's got to offer 100x, and wouldn't hire me if I wasn't worth that. So absent government coercion if I'm worth 108x before, pay that or someone else will.

[durasell]

I could go on. But the most important thing would be to freeze all budgets.

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Even the military?

[durasell]

p.s.

a lot of the programs you mentioned will be picked up by the states. And guess what? State taxes go up.