Debating American Serfdom (government dependents outnumber private sector workers)

New York Times ^ | September 22, 2007 | Dan Mitchell

[reaganaut1]

Andrew Sullivan, a senior editor at The Atlantic, came upon a chart at TheAgitator.com last week showing two trend lines: the ranks of private workers decreasing and the number of government beneficiaries increasing in the United States since 1950, with beneficiaries now surpassing workers. The only comment from Mr. Sullivan on his blog at TheAtlantic.com was his headline: “The Road to Serfdom.”

Radley Balko, the libertarian commentator and journalist who writes TheAgitator.com, credits the chart to A. Gary Shilling’s financial newsletter Insight. It was also posted on the Web site of Reason magazine, where Mr. Balko is an editor (reason.com).

According to Katherine Mangu-Ward, an editor at Reason, Mr. Shilling, an economist and columnist for Forbes, totaled up government workers, “private-sector workers who owe their jobs to government” and recipients of government entitlements like Social Security and food stamps. For good measure, he threw in dependents of these beneficiaries. “Shilling found that for each person earning his pay in the private sector and paying taxes,” Ms. Mangu-Ward wrote, “there is at least one more person relying on a check from the government.”

[durasell]

According to Katherine Mangu-Ward, an editor at Reason, Mr. Shilling, an economist and columnist for Forbes, totaled up government workers, “private-sector workers who owe their jobs to government” and recipients of government entitlements like Social Security and food stamps. For good measure, he threw in dependents of these beneficiaries.

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Uh okay.

[VR-21]

"government dependents outnumber private sector workers"

Well that's the plan, isn't it?

[Ken522]

I've heard this argument before - it includes people it really shouldn't just for the sake of fluffing up the numbers. Active duty military personnel are not "serfs" nor should they be categorized like that for the sake of academic argument - it's false!

[Clintonfatigued]

Anyone who receives a government check? That would include military personnel, intelligence officers, and law enforcement officers. They deserve better than to be portrayed like that.

While it’s true that there are too many people who get money from the government (including many corporations), this study is overly simplistic.

[Spirochete]

Active duty military personnel are not "serfs" nor should they be categorized

Um, yes they are. The only difference is their serfdom is not hereditary. They're worked harder than serfs on the manor, too.

[kcar]

No surprise here. I pay 29% federal income tax, 7% state income tax, 15% FICA (which includes the employer portion that would have been paid to me if I was free to opt out of that great Ponzi scheme), 6% sales tax, various property and registration fees for cars and pets, insidious uncountable excise taxes hidden in gasoline and alcohol. Well over half my earnings are taxed by the State. Serfs had it better.

[Clemenza]

Remember that in New Jersey, 25% of the population is either employed by the government (state, federal, local), or has a spouse who is. That’s not counting the contractors who are indirectly government employees themselves.

[sure_fine]

people will catch on eventually that Andrew Sullivan is gay, therefor thinks liberal, meaning true facts have nothing to do with anything

[kittymyrib]

Serfs generally paid a third to their landowners. We are in worse shape. With all the liberal wailing about Bush “lying” to get us into the war in Iraq, why don’t conservatives point out that even if this were true, government usually lies to the people. When the income tax was introduced, the government said that it would never exceed 3%, and only the rich would pay it...the biggest lie ever told.

[Old North State]

Matthew Yglesias doesn't appear to understand the logical conclusion of his argument. If America has gotten better as the number of government dependents has risen, then he must conclude we should make everyone dependents as soon as possible. This is the Marxist argument so successfully demonstrated in the USSR and East Germany in the last century. Yes, the free market engine has been able to pull the increasingly heavy baggage cars for the last few decades, but as some point we reach a tipping point. It would seem prudent to consider that such a point may have been reached when the people in the baggage cars outnumber the number of people pulling it.

[Inge_CAV]

“It would seem prudent to consider that such a point may have been reached when the people in the baggage cars outnumber the number of people pulling it.”

Yeah, the little choo-choo is gonna have a massive train wreck.

[cgbg]

I understand why you are uncomfortable putting military folks in the same category as civilians.

However the economic point remains valid. If more folks are dependent on a government paycheck (earned or unearned, important and vital jobs as well as stupid ones) they have a vested interest in keeping government at least as large as it is at present.

The possible flaw in the model in my view is how spouses are treated if one works for the government and another works in the private sector.

[Leisler]

In the late Roman Empire era, Roman free citizens, taxed into poverty, would show up at the gates of the large estates of Roman Senators and for food and lodging give up their freedom. This was the rise of serfdom, voluntary slavery and the creation of Italian city states and innumerable provinces.

[Leisler]

In the late Roman Empire era, Roman free citizens, taxed into poverty, would show up at the gates of the large estates of Roman Senators and for food and lodging give up their freedom. This was the rise of serfdom, voluntary slavery and the creation of Italian city states and innumerable provinces.

[durasell]

The point is that we have an increasngly complex country to look after. Folks don’t feel as if they benefit from gubmint services because those services are transparent to them.

[SandRat]

Retired military personnel are not "serfs" nor should they be categorized

I like many others gave 20+ years of our livess to protecting this country. We are not SERFS!

[the invisib1e hand]

Remember that in New Jersey, 25% of the population is either employed by the government (state, federal, local), or has a spouse who is.

Is it me or is there a bit of circular reasoning here?

[live+let_live]

It’s worse than just the number of people.

A couple of years ago someone published a report that for similar jobs with similar responsibilities a government job paid more than a private sector job.

You’ll have to decide for yourself: is it time to join the government payroll gravy train?

What do you think are the odds of your goverment worker pension defaulting like so many private sector ones have? TWA, McDonnell Douglas are a couple here in St. Louis.

[Old North State]

Folks don’t feel as if they benefit from gubmint services because those services are transparent to them.....

That may be true, but how can the economic activity require more government dependents than the number of people providing the activity? Can it make sense that there are more people working for the Dept. of Agriculture than there are farmers in the US?