Rapeseed biofuel "produces more greenhouse gas than oil or petrol"

TimesOnline - UK ^ | September 22, 2007 | Lewis Smith

[Clemenza]

Rutts Hutt still puts Jimmy Buff's to shame. Hiram's is pretty good too.

Dickie Dees, however, is just plain awful.

[Doogle]

where’s Hiram’s?
I miss the old Three Acres,and Egans

[Oberon]

Buncha morons. The only greenhouse gases in rapeseed oil were generated from carbon that the plant sucked out of CO2 in the air to begin with! So for six months or so this stuff was out of the atmosphere, and now they’re saying it’s a terrible crime to put it back...

[Oberon]

And speaking of "bio-fuels" and "greenhouse gasses," has anybody ever brought up the very simple fact that ethanol produces less energy than gasoline when used in an internal combustion engine, so your mileage is reduced. Which means you need to burn MORE of it, increasing the amount of CO2 and other greenhouse gasses than you would if you just burned gasoline alone.

The C02 that comes out is only the CO2 that the plant source sequestered the previous year. No net gain on the greenhouse gases, then.

[ozzymandus]

I’ve gotten to where I don’t believe anything I read about “alternative fuels”, either pro or con. All this arguing makes me realize what a wonder gasoline is.

[Mr. Lucky]

Actually, the ethanol has less carbon in it than the gasoline (which is why you have to burn more of it), but it burns more efficiently, so the difference in mileage isn’t as great as the difference in carbon (and, of course, the carbon in the ethanol is removed from the atmosphere by the growing corn while the carbon in fossil fuels is released into the atmosphere without any recovery.

[Clemenza]

Hiram’s is in Fort Lee.

[Dr.Deth]

"Because of the political correct folks, Rapeseed is now called Canola."

A pity. "Less oil, more rape" is quite the catchy eco-bumpersticker.

[Doogle]

I’m closer to Hot Dog Johnny’s now...
Jezzzzz, I’m going through withdrawls now......*LOL*
I have to make a sorte to either Buffs or Tommy’s in Elizabeth.

[Doogle]

withdrawals

[Mr. Lucky]

In the rural mid-west, the price differential between ethanol and gasoline can be striking. I filled my Silverado Friday for $199.9 per gallon of ethanol (105 octane) at a station where gasoline (87 octane) was listed at $285.9 per gallon; the mileage difference is about 15%.

A study from Scotland about the production of corn is more than a little suspect. What type of nitrogen is the professor applying? By what method? What is the alternative ground cover? (In the US, far more nitrogen is applied per acre, and in a far more inefficient manner, to suburban yards than to the corn fields they replaced)

[NVDave]

It is still called “rape” between farmers, because when we’re talking farmer-to-farmer, we know what we’re talking about.

When non-farmers are about, we’ll use the latin family name, “brassica.”

It is partly PC-ism, but saying “Wow, I got a bumper crop of rape!” in mixed, non-farming company causes a whole lot of people to whip their heads around, and that’s the fault of the non-farmers.

Rape (and other brassicas) are grown for more than just their seed, btw — some brassicas make excellent quick-growing graze for cattle, with excellent feed value.

[djxu456]

at the present time,
the cost of E85, does not make sense.
commodity ethanol , is 1.56 a gallon.
there is a 50 cent subsidy.
the subsidy should cover the motorfuel tax.

Because of transportation problems, and lack
of competition, the markup is out of line.
I expect that to gradually improve.

you might find these links interesting
http://ethanolmarket.aghost.net/
http://www.cleanairchoice.org/outdoor/PriceForum.asp

[Oberon]

Is Sudex a brassica?

[NVDave]

No, “Sudex” and “Sudax” are brand-name sorghum/sudangrass cross varieties. “Sudax” is owned by DeKalb, I think.

These are warm-season grasses commonly used for fast cover, green manure, etc.

Here’s a good quick summary of the cultural characteristics of Sudex:

http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/GreenManureCrops/sorghum-sudan.pdf

Brassicas are sometimes known as “mustards” when farmers are talking about seed-bearing brassicas. You no doubt eat a wide variety of brassicas:

Broccoli, cauliflower, turnips, swede/kale, brussel sprouts, cabbage, kolabri, etc.

The seed-bearing brassicas are various mustards, crambe, rape, canola (as a breed of rape), and have various levels of oil in their seeds. Mustards are known for being very hardy weeds where you don’t want them.

The leafy brassicas, the kale, swede, turnips, etc — those make fantastic quick-yielding grazing material.

[kublia khan]

What the study really says is that environmentalist are not interested in replacing oil but rather in reducing energy availability. The reason for this is without energy the world wide population would naturally decrease and people would be forced to cluster together in tighter communities making them more manageable and less independent.