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New Find Evokes Horrors of the Berlin Wall
Spiegel Online ^ | 08/13/2007 | David Crossland

Posted on 09/29/2007 5:28:50 AM PDT by Argentine-Firecracker

East Germany's ex-leaders always denied they had ordered soldiers to shoot people trying to flee across the Berlin Wall, even though hundreds were killed. Now the discovery of a written order to open fire on men, women and children has reawakened fading memories of the regime's brutality.

It was always obvious that East Germany's border guards were ordered to shoot at people trying to flee to the West. Had no such order existed, they wouldn't have killed an estimated 1,100 defectors making desperate bids for freedom across the Berlin Wall or the minefields of the 860-mile border between East and West Germany. Most of those victims were shot -- 18-year-old Peter Fechter, for example, who bled to death at the foot of the Wall in August 1962 after guards fired into his back as he tried to escape.

But after the Berlin Wall collapsed in 1989, East Germany's former leaders and top Stasi secret service officials insisted there had been no shoot-to-kill order, and the absence of evidence to the contrary helped many of them to escape prosecution or get away with only lenient sentences in a series of trials.

(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: berlinwall; coldwar; communism; eastgermany
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1 posted on 09/29/2007 5:28:51 AM PDT by Argentine-Firecracker
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To: Argentine-Firecracker

You’d think that the surviving guards would know if there was a shoot to kill order. If they did not, then what use would it be?


2 posted on 09/29/2007 5:30:55 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Argentine-Firecracker

The Russians made them do it.


3 posted on 09/29/2007 5:38:25 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
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To: Argentine-Firecracker

They were only following non-existent orders.


4 posted on 09/29/2007 5:40:18 AM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Have you developed your 2008 bug-out plan?)
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To: Brilliant
You’d think that the surviving guards would know if there was a shoot to kill order. If they did not, then what use would it be?

Pretend for a moment that you're a surviving guard and know all about the order. Perhaps you were forced by the presence of the Stasi to shoot at an escapee or had a friend who did.

Are you going to go public and subject yourself and others you worked with to charges of crimes against humanity? Not to mention the personal reactions of currently PC friends and neighbors.

Someone who was 20 when the wall went up is 59 now. My guess is that as these men approach death from old age, some will be stung by their own consciences into confessing. If there were an amnesty for those who do so now, the process will be sped up--especially if they can say the Stasi would have shot them if they didn't do it.

5 posted on 09/29/2007 6:07:52 AM PDT by Sal (My "good" Senator Kyl exposed himself as a Grand Betrayer, corrupt to the core!)
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To: Argentine-Firecracker

I have a piece of that wall in my china closet.


6 posted on 09/29/2007 6:09:58 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Sal

You don’t have to admit you shot anyone. Just say what the orders were.


7 posted on 09/29/2007 6:13:02 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: lizol

For your list.


8 posted on 09/29/2007 6:17:40 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Sal
Not to mention the very real risk of having your family murdered if you cooperated with the investigation. Do people think that the Stasi assassins just vanished into thin air when the wall came down?
9 posted on 09/29/2007 6:19:37 AM PDT by Camel Joe (liberal=socialist=royalist/imperialist pawn=enemy of Freedom)
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To: sageb1

I was stationed in Berlin from 84-88, my son was born there in the US hospital. My wife and I must have drove through Checkpoint Charlie over 100 times. I remember the faces of the East German border guards, there was no doubt in my mind that they would shoot first, no questions asked. Most escape attempts never made the international news but were picked up on Armed Forces Televison in Berlin. Escape attempts were more numerous than many thought. Many of the news items on the escape attempts would be West Berliners awakened in the middle of the night by the sound of automatic weapons fire, East Germany border guards would then be observed dragging something away.


10 posted on 09/29/2007 6:25:17 AM PDT by ops33 (Retired USAF Senior Master Sergeant)
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To: Brilliant
You overlook the very real risk of having your family murdered if you cooperated with the investigation. Do people think that the Stasi assassins just vanished into thin air when the wall came down? When a communist/socialist regime is in charge it is like being ruled over by Al Capone, they are really no different than gangsters. Admitting there were orders to shoot would bring the leaders of that gang within reach of authorities, something the Stasi could not let happen.
11 posted on 09/29/2007 6:27:38 AM PDT by Camel Joe (liberal=socialist=royalist/imperialist pawn=enemy of Freedom)
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To: Argentine-Firecracker

***It was always obvious that East Germany’s border guards were ordered to shoot at people trying to flee to the West.***

Impossible. I heard Vladimer Posner of Radio Moscow said the wall was designed to keep westerners from fleeing to the people’s paridise of East Germany.

Sarc/ off.


12 posted on 09/29/2007 6:36:22 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (("democrat" 'one who panders to the crude and mindless whims of the masses.'))
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

paridise == Paradise..


13 posted on 09/29/2007 6:37:09 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (("democrat" 'one who panders to the crude and mindless whims of the masses.'))
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To: ops33

A pal of mine was stationed in West Berlin, working as a “listener” to East German radio frequencies for the US Army. He said there was no doubt in his mind the E. Germans would shoot, given any opportunity.


14 posted on 09/29/2007 6:40:02 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Go Hawks !)
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To: ops33

“Most escape attempts never made the international news...”
__________________________________________________________

In the early 60s, some of these shootings were seen on US TV and in newsreels. Then, for some reason, they dissappeared.


15 posted on 09/29/2007 7:00:33 AM PDT by Roccus (Fighting politicians IS the war on terror!)
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To: Brilliant
You don’t have to admit you shot anyone. Just say what the orders were.

My point was that saying what the orders were would have opened up investigations--investigations that might expose who did and didn't shoot. It's moot really as the investigations are going to come now anyway.

16 posted on 09/29/2007 7:31:36 AM PDT by Sal (My "good" Senator Kyl exposed himself as a Grand Betrayer, corrupt to the core!)
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To: Camel Joe
Not to mention the very real risk of having your family murdered if you cooperated with the investigation. Do people think that the Stasi assassins just vanished into thin air when the wall came down?

Good point--better than mine IMO. I suspect the Stasi vanished into thin air about as much as the KGB did in Russia. IOW not at all.

17 posted on 09/29/2007 7:35:10 AM PDT by Sal (My "good" Senator Kyl exposed himself as a Grand Betrayer, corrupt to the core!)
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To: Sal
Someone who was 20 when the wall went up is 59 now.

Didn't the wall go up in 1960?

18 posted on 09/29/2007 7:39:10 AM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: Argentine-Firecracker
An historic speech from the last democrat who was truly worthy of respect...JFK.

http://66.235.201.12/videoclips/jfkberlin.wmv

LET THEM COME TO BERLIN!

19 posted on 09/29/2007 7:49:38 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (If martyrdom is so cool,why does Osama Obama go to such great lengths to avoid it?)
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To: HIDEK6
Didn't the wall go up in 1960?

I think it was '61.

20 posted on 09/29/2007 7:56:24 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (If martyrdom is so cool,why does Osama Obama go to such great lengths to avoid it?)
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