Mysterious Large Canines in Vermont Have Puzzling Ancestry

Associated Content ^ | 10-15-07 | Alice Meadows

[Calpernia]

This is Song Dog Kennel’s story of the American Indian Dog:

http://www.indiandogs.com/map2.htm

But, remember, I said that this is disputed by many. I truly don’t know what the right story is.

[mamelukesabre]

So what did turn up in the coydog DNA then?

[Calpernia]

Almost correct. Wolves and coyotes will breed with dogs with human intervention.

Wolves and coyotes won’t breed with each other.

But, those that were trying to create American Indian Dogs were breeding for looks with combining generations of Wolf/dog and Coyote/dog.

From what I hear, many unworkables were turned lose.

Many more were turned lose when they knew they were going to be investigated.

[Revolting cat!]

[SJackson]

I don’t know if you should say that. Maybe they invented most all the commonest breeds....

You took my breath away.

Yeeah, I guess I set you up for that. :>)

Whether it's because they "liked" dogs more, who knows.

Did we inherit a British love of dogs, unlikey imo since it was more a 19th century thing, but there's a PhD in there, as there is in the previously mentioned Indian dog issue.

Americans love dogs, and American institutions award many, many PhDs

[pankot]

The Jersey Devil?

[Varda]

There are so many phony stories floating around dog breeds and breeders it’s hard to tell sometimes what’s a real preservation efforts and what’s wishful thinking. It would be neat to think someone has actually found true Indian type and is trying to preserve it.

The pre-Columbian Indian dogs (USA area) were often uniform in type and pretty small.

[SJackson]

Wolves and coyotes won’t breed with each other.

I presume that's a function of the fact that wolves will naturally kill coyotes first, ask questions later, rather than anything genetic.

[mamelukesabre]

A domestic dog will attempt to breed with a cat if it gets the chance. Or even an inanimate object.

[Grizzled Bear]

Warg?

[Calpernia]

I wonder if insemination would work?

[Calpernia]

So will men.

::ducks!::

[achilles2000]

If you neighbor keeps wolves, get a Kangal, Anatolian, or a Caucasian Ovcharka. No worries...they love to kill wolves and are quite good at it.

[Varda]

Actually physically they will all breed with each other given the right conditions (a severe lack of mates). However to produce a breeding population the offspring need both parents to raise them. This is why wild hybrids of wolves and coyotes with dogs don’t exist. Dog sires don’t stick around to help raise the offspring. Because this behavior is inherited it’s thought that if by some miracle a first generation survived, a second never would. (I have to add that there is one species of wolf that does hybridize with dogs, Ethiopian wolves. They don’t raise offspring the way other wolves do)

It’s true (in packs, breeding pair + offspring) wolves, dogs and coyotes will kill each other they can.

[mamelukesabre]

Yes, the brits liked dogs more, and still do. Look up some stats on pet ownership around the world. Americans and british are way above all the rest of the world in terms of dog ownership per capita. Most immigrants to america do not understand the american concept of bonding with a dog. It takes them a generation to get it.

I took a guy from the middle east out pheasant hunting once. There was a group of us. One guy had a very good hunting dog along. As you may be aware, dogs are not very well liked in the middle east. By the end of the day, this guy from the middle east was saying he’s starting to understand that dogs *can* be useful for *some* things. But before that he looked at dogs like americans look at a rat or a snake. You could see the revulsion in his face.

[Calpernia]

bump

[SJackson]

I understand, it’t not genitic, rather cultural

[SJackson]

I wonder if insemination would work?

Interesting question, phrase it the right way you could probably get a million or two to investigate that very important question, from what department I don't know, but the money is out there.

[Varda]

In the wild the “coydog” hasn’t been verified. Remember that dogs are actually a subspecies of wolf (but a Eurasian one) and the genetics of that subspecies can be differentiated from North American strains. The coydogs tested were a hybrid of Eastern gray wolves and coyotes.

[Calpernia]

Oh I was just wondering if some of those AI dog breeders were collecting semen from wolves and artificially inseminating coyotes. I guess I was mostly posting out loud. Therefore, I’ll call it a night.

Night!