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City Hikes Boy Scouts' Rent by $199,999 over Gay Ban (Philadelphia)
Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | 10/18/2007 | Joseph A. Slobodzian

Posted on 10/18/2007 9:41:25 AM PDT by Pyro7480

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To: trumandogz

Who are you really for all I know you could be a mole living in the land of the free!


101 posted on 10/18/2007 10:15:16 AM PDT by restornu (No one is perfect but you can always strive to do the right thing! PRESS FOWARD MITT!)
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To: edcoil

Nice pot shot, bigot.


102 posted on 10/18/2007 10:15:32 AM PDT by Petronski (Congratulations Tribe! AL Central Champs)
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To: All
I've been here for quite some time (mostly lurking), and I am amazed at the knee jerk reactions I am seeing on this post. Have we learned nothing from the way Rush turned the letter of censure back on the heads of the "41 phony Americans?"

Since FR has, by far, some of the most creative people I've associated with (even though loosley), I'd like to see some of that creativity come through here. How can this ruling be turned back on Philadelphia's own head in a way that makes the scouts look good? (ala, Rush putting the letter up for auction to benefit the MLEF)

103 posted on 10/18/2007 10:15:33 AM PDT by HusbandMan
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To: Ol' Sparky

What other groups receive free rent from the city?

If there are any other such groups, I am opposed to such Welfare arrangements.


104 posted on 10/18/2007 10:16:25 AM PDT by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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To: Ol' Sparky

What other groups receive free rent from the city?

If there are any other such groups, I am opposed to such Welfare arrangements.


105 posted on 10/18/2007 10:16:36 AM PDT by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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To: SZonian
See my reply #63. The article was badly written, and I missed the part about who rightly owns the building. Of course, if the city kicks the Boy Scouts out of their own building, the scouts should be reimbursed...very generously.

My opinion on the rent reduction, however, stands regardless of any lawsuits against the scouts. I've worked in a litigation support capacity on many multi-billion-dollar lawsuits, which private organizations face all the time. The Boy Scouts are no different. I have a neutral opinion on them, neither pro nor anti. In the end, they are either private or they're not -- they shouldn't be able to play both sides of the coin.

106 posted on 10/18/2007 10:16:51 AM PDT by Freedom_no_exceptions (No actual, intended, or imminent victim = no crime. No exceptions.)
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To: trumandogz

Just pointing out the falsity of your claim. Governments use all sorts of enticements to get people to do things the Govt wants. Free land is but one. You could consider an interest rate deduction on your mortgage a similar arrangement. Don’t make the rules, just observe them. Barter is a much older form of trade prior to the invention of a cash economy. It was not so long ago that most of America ran on a barter rather than cash economy. I don’t take the ACLU view of Govt having to be benign and equal to all points of view. It has never been that way, nor, as evidenced by this story, will it ever be that way. I prefer the real diversity, where regional and cultural differences abound. Having said that, I don’t believe men having anal sex constitutes a regional or cultural difference, rather I categorize it as a crime against nature.


107 posted on 10/18/2007 10:17:09 AM PDT by Jigajog
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To: elpadre
How do they handle other nonprofit groups? Are they being discriminatory toward Scouts? Philly citizens need to get hot over this.

The rule of thumb when I was young was that public buildings were available for use by non-profit groups when the building was not in use for its "public" purpose. That is how many churches have been permitted to use a cafeteria on Sunday mornings for services. Likewise for the use of school ball fields of "little league". My own Scout troop met in the cafeteria on the 1st and 3rd Tuesday nights during the regular school year. The building was closed during the summer, so we were hosted by a Presbyterian church a few blocks away during that time.

108 posted on 10/18/2007 10:17:53 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Petronski

Thanks for your 5th grade name calling. Now, tell me where its wrong.


109 posted on 10/18/2007 10:18:42 AM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: SZonian

I own commercial property and all the improvements done to my property by a tenant becomes my property.


110 posted on 10/18/2007 10:18:49 AM PDT by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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To: edcoil

Even a fifth-grader could recognize your bigotry.


111 posted on 10/18/2007 10:19:31 AM PDT by Petronski (Congratulations Tribe! AL Central Champs)
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To: Pyro7480

Reprisels against the children because of the actions of their adults. The Nazis did even do that in Liditz when they wiped a village of the map. They killed the adults but spared the children.


112 posted on 10/18/2007 10:21:29 AM PDT by Doctor Raoul (Columbia = Ayatollah U.)
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To: Pyro7480

Reprisels against the children because of the actions of their adults. The Nazis did even do that in Liditz when they wiped a village OFF the map. They killed the adults but spared the children.


113 posted on 10/18/2007 10:21:46 AM PDT by Doctor Raoul (Columbia = Ayatollah U.)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions

Fair enough, you got flamed pretty hard.

Maybe you can help clear up this problem. If the city leased the land with the understanding that the BSA would improve the land and then maintain it along with providing a valuable community service, what becomes of the building and the associated costs the BSA paid for over the past 80 or so years? Does the city own it, does the city pay the BSA fair market value for the building, does the city reimburse the BSA for all costs?

Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. The BSA was/is providing a service to the city. I call it bartering, yet others are calling it “free land”. I guess that’s the distinction.

SZ


114 posted on 10/18/2007 10:22:07 AM PDT by SZonian (Tagline under repair until further notice)
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To: Hazwaste
I bet the Catholics would LOVE to help.

I miss understood you I thought you pro BS but you were being sarcastic, than join the cynic!

115 posted on 10/18/2007 10:22:12 AM PDT by restornu (No one is perfect but you can always strive to do the right thing! PRESS FOWARD MITT!)
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To: chaosagent
Did you miss the fact, that although the city owns the land, the scouts built the building in 1928, in return for the $1 year rent?

The Scouts should demand the fair market value of the building from the city if the city is going to reneg on the agreement. The taxpayers will love that. Pay for the building and pick up the ongoing costs. They will also have to find someone willing to occupy the building and pay the appropriate rent to cover repayment of the mortgage. Doing otherwise is a "taking" of private property without just compensation.

The improvements on the grounds of Balboa Park have also been financed by the Scouts. They too are owed a fair market payment for the improvements on the property if the city decides to evict them over the shrill demands of the gays.

116 posted on 10/18/2007 10:22:28 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: trumandogz
>"Why are the Boy Scouts on Welfare?"

Well, they donated good citizenship skills to the general populace. That led to an advanced CIVILIZATION. So the city actually used to get something for nothing.

The BS, are hopelessly outnumbered by the no morals publik edjemakashun systum, that's why Philly is the shining example of whut it is today!

117 posted on 10/18/2007 10:22:41 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Hey Jessie, how much melanin do you have to have to form a socially acceptable lynch mob?)
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To: Pyro7480

Oh but it is just about what two people do in the privacy of their own bedroom. /s


118 posted on 10/18/2007 10:22:51 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: trumandogz
The article calls it a "city-owned building," but it may be wrong. No one answered my question, so I researched it:

Click here for source.

SNIP

According to property law, should the Boy Scouts ultimately be evicted, ownership of the land would revert back to the city of Philadelphia. But the Boy Scouts built the headquarters with its own funds, and the organization spends about $60,000 annually to maintain it, says Cradle of Liberty Council spokesperson Jeff Jubelirer. In 1994 the organization spent $2.6 million to refurbish the structure.

“I don’t know what the city’s legal rights are regarding the building itself and the land—that’s likely one of the issues that could be dealt with in a legal proceeding,” Jubelirer says.

/SNIP

They should tear down the building, if they can do so legally.

And there's a lesson here: Don't build private property on public land.

119 posted on 10/18/2007 10:24:32 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: Petronski

Boy, you won that one...

/s


120 posted on 10/18/2007 10:24:58 AM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: Stark_GOP
Look into the tax breaks that professional sports teams get.

Of course, this dwarfs any benefits the Boy Scouts get. Not only do sports teams get tax breaks, they actually receive taxpayer money to build stadiums. I'm slowly becoming a sports fan, but the politics sicken me.

The benefits from the Boy Scouts more than make up what the city would collect in rent.

I don't get this. How so?

121 posted on 10/18/2007 10:25:19 AM PDT by Freedom_no_exceptions (No actual, intended, or imminent victim = no crime. No exceptions.)
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To: Petronski

Doesen’t feel good does it!

Now you would like to apply the golden rule!


122 posted on 10/18/2007 10:25:55 AM PDT by restornu (No one is perfect but you can always strive to do the right thing! PRESS FOWARD MITT!)
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To: trumandogz

I guess it’s to be determined if the city has zoned this as commercial. If not, I presume the point becomes moot. I won’t pretend to be a lawyer.

Again, the BSA was providing a community with services that they otherwise weren’t able to provide their youth and have not been able to since. I don’t see anything “free” about this.

SZ


123 posted on 10/18/2007 10:26:00 AM PDT by SZonian (Tagline under repair until further notice)
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To: rawcatslyentist
Are there any other organizations in Philly that have "donated good citizens" to the city?

If so, do they get free rent?

Does the city where you live provide free rent to organizations that have donated good citizens?

How about the Girl Scouts, do they donate good citizens and do they get free rent?

124 posted on 10/18/2007 10:27:18 AM PDT by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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To: restornu

I can’t understand your post. If you’re insinuating I’ve exhibited bigotry, post the link.

I won’t hold my breath for your apology.


125 posted on 10/18/2007 10:27:26 AM PDT by Petronski (Congratulations Tribe! AL Central Champs)
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To: trumandogz

No it’s not the point. Have some charity for a truly good cause in your heart.


126 posted on 10/18/2007 10:27:33 AM PDT by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly our beautiful and free American sky.))
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To: edcoil

I’m not going to climb into your gutter and attempt a conversation with you.

I’m just flagging your anti-Catholic bigotry for what it is.


127 posted on 10/18/2007 10:28:26 AM PDT by Petronski (Congratulations Tribe! AL Central Champs)
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To: Tulane
"Rent control in Philly, like other jurisdictions, only applies to residential leases."

That IS the Boy Scouts residence.

128 posted on 10/18/2007 10:28:41 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions

Future leaders.


129 posted on 10/18/2007 10:29:08 AM PDT by Stark_GOP
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To: Always Right

In the end days good will be called evil and evil will be called good.


130 posted on 10/18/2007 10:29:21 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: napscoordinator

In this case; it is not stealing. The Scouts are an institution that obviously cares.


131 posted on 10/18/2007 10:29:24 AM PDT by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly our beautiful and free American sky.))
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To: rawcatslyentist
The BS, are hopelessly outnumbered by the no morals publik edjemakashun systum,

I've been biting my tongue, but the BSA is also filled with the "no morals" people. I was accused of bigotry by a group of mothers when I told them I won't teach my children about homosexuality. One of those mothers - and her close friends who agree with her - are very active in the local BSA with their sons in it. So, there are people in the BSA who are taking advantage of everything the organization offers, but they don't really share the values.

132 posted on 10/18/2007 10:30:23 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: chaosagent
"Did you miss the fact, that although the city owns the land, the scouts built the building in 1928, in return for the $1 year rent?"

If that's true, and if there's a written contract formalizing that arrangement, then the city might be in breach of contract. But if it was a city ordinance or resolution, it can probably be unilaterally amended or revoked by the city.
133 posted on 10/18/2007 10:30:38 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: Red in Blue PA

Thank you.


134 posted on 10/18/2007 10:30:48 AM PDT by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly our beautiful and free American sky.))
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions

How? The city doesn’t have to fund youth organizations that provide a clear purpose and build character in youth. Can you imagine how much it would cost taxpayers to fund an organization the size of BSA and have the same accomplishments and achievements the BSA has had?

It’s not even close. The gov’t, any gov’t couldn’t do it in a million years. You know why? Volunteers who actually give a good damn about the youth of this country.

SZ


135 posted on 10/18/2007 10:31:18 AM PDT by SZonian (Tagline under repair until further notice)
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To: Vigilanteman

sounds like the vermin are inhabiting City Hall.


136 posted on 10/18/2007 10:31:24 AM PDT by rahbert
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To: freekitty
Have some charity for a truly good cause in your heart.

That is exactly the point.

You and I may believe that the Boy Scouts are a good cause and deserve free rent.

Other people my believe that the Girl Scouts are a good cause and deserve free rent.

Other people may believe that the ACLU is a good cause and deserve free rent.

And some people may believe that NAMBLA is a good cause and deserver free rent.

137 posted on 10/18/2007 10:31:46 AM PDT by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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To: trumandogz
I am not sure the Scouts need to be 200k a year but One Dollar is ridiculous.

Why does a government entity own a building with rental space? Could they actually get 200k for that space on the open market? If so, they should sell the building to a private owner for many times that yearly rental and also collect property taxes on it. The city has no business being a landlord.

138 posted on 10/18/2007 10:31:53 AM PDT by Ditto (Global Warming: The 21st Century's Snake Oil)
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To: trumandogz
I own commercial property and all the improvements done to my property by a tenant becomes my property.

Check your lease. Depending on the improvements made, there is usually compensation to be negotiated based on the specific types of improvements in the form of lease rate reductions. Alternatively, YOU, the property owner are responsible for all maintenance, utility, infrastructure, etc. up keep. You should post on here what you spend on the building per year.

Now, what kind of a break would you give your tenant if they promised to fix leaks in the roof, maintain the parking lot, mow the grass, change filters, wash buildings, pay utilities, replace old door hardware, replace light bulbs, etc. I would bet you could give them an incredible break as the free and clear owner of a building that you didn't have to spend a dime on. What were you saying about improvements to your property?

139 posted on 10/18/2007 10:32:45 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (No to nitwit jesters with a predisposition of self importance and unqualified political opinions!)
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To: Petronski

I said when the shoe is on the other foot you don’t like it!


140 posted on 10/18/2007 10:33:02 AM PDT by restornu (No one is perfect but you can always strive to do the right thing! PRESS FOWARD MITT!)
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To: Ditto

Exactly!


141 posted on 10/18/2007 10:33:09 AM PDT by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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To: Pyro7480

So, is the land worth $200,000 per year, or is the city trying to charge rent on the Boy Scouts own building?


142 posted on 10/18/2007 10:33:13 AM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: Steve_Seattle; chaosagent
A contract is a contract. If the Scouts built the building in return for the rent, and the city wants to break the deal seems to me the City of Philadelphia may well have purchased a really expensive building.

Things probably worth half to 3/4 of a billion dollars, and that's just a bottem end guess, eh!

Well, I'm sure the city's lawyers will understand that.

143 posted on 10/18/2007 10:34:41 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: trumandogz
The BSA used to be able to make a difference. They are hopelessly outnumbered today.

I agree, they should pull up and rent the building to the city.

Maybe they could rent it for 1$ a year for awhile. Then they could charge repair and maintenance fees.

144 posted on 10/18/2007 10:35:05 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Hey Jessie, how much melanin do you have to have to form a socially acceptable lynch mob?)
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To: Tenacious 1

That is all taken into consideration. However, their improvements become mine.


145 posted on 10/18/2007 10:35:16 AM PDT by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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To: Pyro7480

So, the city does not support freedom of assembly or association? Oh, I forgot, the BSA is a “traditionalist” group.


146 posted on 10/18/2007 10:35:30 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: restornu

But since the shoe is not on the other foot, your comment makes no sense.


147 posted on 10/18/2007 10:36:19 AM PDT by Petronski (Congratulations Tribe! AL Central Champs)
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To: trumandogz
receive free rent from the city?

You have made this same incorrect statement at least four times in this thread. The rent is not free. The Scouts pay a legally recognized amount of $1.00/year -- in accordance with their agreement with with the City.

Therefore, your whole premise of "free land" is false and your argument collapses under it's own weight.

148 posted on 10/18/2007 10:36:31 AM PDT by been_lurking
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To: Pyro7480

Portland, Maine, is a good candidate for SF East too.
Why do these perverts want to destroy everything good and decent about America????


149 posted on 10/18/2007 10:37:26 AM PDT by MrLee (Sha'alu Shalom Yerushalyim!! God bless Eretz Israel.)
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To: been_lurking

One dollar a year is Free Rent.


150 posted on 10/18/2007 10:37:36 AM PDT by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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