Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Quack Michael Moore has mad view of the NHS (UK National Health Service)
The Times (U.K.) ^ | October 28, 2007 | Minette Marrin

Posted on 10/28/2007 12:14:03 PM PDT by Stoat

Quack Michael Moore has mad view of the NHS

 

The fourth estate has always had a bad name, but it seems to be getting worse. Journalism should be an honest and useful trade, and often still is. But now that journalism has more power than ever before, it seems to have become ever more disreputable. In recent years it has been brought lower and lower by kiss-and-tell betrayals, by “reality” TV, by shockumentaries and by liars, fantasists, hucksters and geeks of every kind, crowing and denouncing and emoting in a hideous new version of Bunyan’s Vanity Fair.

Outstanding among these is Michael Moore, the American documentary maker. He specialises in searing indictments, such as Fahrenheit 9/11 and Bowling for Columbine, and has, without a doubt, a genius for it. Although his films are crude, manipulative and one-sided, he is idolised by millions of Americans and Europeans, widely seen as some sort of redneck Mr Valiant-for-truth.

Nothing could be further from the truth. His latest documentary, Sicko, was released in cinemas last week. Millions of people will see it and all too many of them will be misled.

Sicko, like all Moore’s films, is about an important and emotive subject – healthcare. He contrasts the harsh and exclusive system in the US with the European ideal of universal socialised medicine, equal and free for all, and tries to demonstrate that one is wrong and the other is right. So far, so good; there are cases to be made.

Unfortunately Sicko is a dishonest film. That is not only my opinion. It is the opinion of Professor Lord Robert Winston, the consultant and advocate of the NHS. When asked on BBC Radio 4 whether he recognised the NHS as portrayed in this film, Winston replied: “No, I didn’t. Most of it was filmed at my hospital [the Hammersmith in west London], which is a very good hospital but doesn’t represent what the NHS is like.”

I didn’t recognise it either, from years of visiting NHS hospitals. Moore painted a rose-tinted vision of spotless wards, impeccable treatment, happy patients who laugh away any suggestion of waiting in casualty, and a glamorous young GP who combines his devotion to his patients with a salary of £100,000, a house worth £1m and two cars. All this, and for free.

This, along with an even rosier portrait of the French welfare system, is what Moore says the state can and should provide. You would never guess from Sicko that the NHS is in deep trouble, mired in scandal and incompetence, despite the injection of billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money.

While there are good doctors and nurses and treatments in the NHS, there is so much that is inadequate or bad that it is dishonest to represent it as the envy of the world and a perfect blueprint for national healthcare. It isn’t.

GPs’ salaries – used by Moore as evidence that a state-run system does not necessarily mean low wages – is highly controversial; their huge pay rise has coincided with a loss of home visits, a serious problem in getting GP appointments and continuing very low pay for nurses and cleaners.

At least 20 NHS trusts have even worse problems with the hospital-acquired infection clostridium difficile, not least the trust in Kent where 90 people died of C diff in a scandal reported recently.

Many hospitals are in crisis. Money shortages, bad management, excesses of bureaucrats and deadly Whitehall micromanagement mean they have to skimp on what matters most.

Overfilling the beds is dangerous to patients, in hygiene and in recovery times, but it goes on widely. Millions are wasted on expensive agency nurses because NHS nurses are abandoning the profession in droves. Only days ago, the 2007 nurse of the year publicly resigned in despair at the health service. There is a dangerous shortage of midwives since so many have left, and giving birth on the NHS can be a shocking experience.

Meanwhile thousands of young hospital doctors, under a daft new employment scheme, were sent randomly around the country, pretty much regardless of their qualifications or wishes. As foreign doctors are recruited from Third World countries, hundreds of the best-qualified British doctors have been left unemployed. Several have emigrated.

As for consultants, the men in Whitehall didn’t believe what they said about the hours they worked, beyond their duties, and issued new contracts forcing them to work less. You could hardly make it up.

None of these problems mean we should abandon the idea of a universal shared system of healthcare. It’s clear we would not want the American model, even if it isn’t quite as bad as portrayed by Moore. It’s clear our British private medical insurance provision is a rip-off. I believe we should as a society share burdens of ill health and its treatment. The only question is how best to do that and it seems to me the state-run, micromanaged NHS has failed to answer it.

By ignoring these problems, and similar ones in France’s even more generous and expensive health service, Moore is lying about the answer to that question. I wonder whether the grotesquely fat film-maker is aware of the delicious irony that in our state-run system, the government and the NHS have been having serious public discussion about the necessity of refusing to treat people who are extremely obese.

One can only wonder why Sicko is so dishonestly biased. It must be partly down to Moore’s personal vainglory; he has cast himself as a high priest of righteous indignation, the people’s prophet, and he has an almost religious following. He’s a sort of docu-evangelist, dressed like a parody of the American man of the people, with jutting jaw, infantile questions and aggressively aligned baseball cap.

However, behind the pleasures of righteous indignation for him and his audience, there is something more sinister. There’s money in indignation, big money. It is just one of the many extreme sensations that are lucrative for journalists to whip up, along with prurience, disgust and envy. Michael Moore is not Mr Valiant-for-truth. He is Mr Worldly-wiseman, laughing behind his hand at all the gawping suckers in Vanity Fair. Don’t go to his show.

minette.marrin@sunday-times.co.uk



TOPICS: Editorial; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: britain; england; greatbritain; health; healthcare; medicine; michaelmoore; minettemarrin; moore; nationalhealth; nhs; sicko; socialism; socializedmedicine; uk; unitedkingdom

Minette Marrin

Minette Marrin is a journalist, broadcaster and fiction writer. She is a columnist for The Sunday Times, and has also written for The Sunday and Daily Telegraphs and The Spectator and The Asian Wall Street Journal. She regularly contributes to television and radio programmes

1 posted on 10/28/2007 12:14:05 PM PDT by Stoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Stoat

The Brits are angry at Moore’s Marxist propaganda. And the Cubans are beyond irate.


2 posted on 10/28/2007 12:18:11 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

great first paragraph. keep it up, please.


3 posted on 10/28/2007 12:19:04 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (keep the heat on the hillary.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stoat
Thanks for posting this very nice column, Stoat.

From the column...Michael Moore, the American documentary maker...specialises in searing indictments

When will Moore do a searing indictment of that trillion dollar mistake, public housing, which contributed to the evils of prostitution, illegal drugs, gun running, cop killing, murder, and rape?

Before Americans "buy into" government controlled health care, they need to take a good look at government controlled housing,

4 posted on 10/28/2007 12:24:32 PM PDT by syriacus (30,000 Americans died in 30 months in Korea under Truman, to RE-WIN SK's freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
Thanks for posting this very nice column, Stoat.

You're quite welcome and I'm delighted that you've found it to be worthwhile  :-)

From the column...Michael Moore, the American documentary maker...specialises in searing indictments

When will Moore do a searing indictment of that trillion dollar mistake, public housing, which contributed to the evils of prostitution, illegal drugs, gun running, cop killing, murder, and rape?

Before Americans "buy into" government controlled health care, they need to take a good look at government controlled housing,

Excellent points.

I will not be holding my breath, waiting for any sort of honest treatment of anything from him, particularly in the matter of one of the foundations of the American Left, that being the endlessly-discredited "Great Society" programs of the Johnson era. 

A proud, unabashed Socialist such as Moore will blame everything under the sun (preferably 'those evil Republicans') for such failures and never the corrupt and intellectually dishonest nature of the programs themselves.

Such honesty interfere with his goal of undermining America at any and every opportunity.

5 posted on 10/28/2007 12:34:54 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

Moore is nothing but a fat scumbag who couldn’t find his you know what if he had to.


6 posted on 10/28/2007 12:42:27 PM PDT by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly our beautiful and free American sky.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

Minnette almost gets it.

Socialized medicine can NEVER work


7 posted on 10/28/2007 12:51:58 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stoat
Michael Moore a.k.a.

Butt Quack Boxer Shorts

8 posted on 10/28/2007 12:52:19 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: freekitty

No, he is a conniving opportunist and propagandist, and a very rich one at that.


9 posted on 10/28/2007 12:53:48 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

Good article, but Vanity Fair is by William Makepeace Thackery. She seems to be confusing it Pilgrim’s Progress, by John Bunyan.


10 posted on 10/28/2007 12:55:58 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("Be deranged in a consistent manner. Manson was nuts, but at least he was always on message." --dead)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

Minette reminds me of the Libs.

“Communism CAN work. We just didn’t quite have it right last go around.”


11 posted on 10/28/2007 12:58:29 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

Interesting side note: a short list was released recently of the documentaries that are in the running so far this year for an Oscar, and “Sicko” wasn’t on it. Could it be that even the leftist morons in Hollywood realize they can’t put enough makeup on this particular pig to make it presentable on Oscar night? (I mean “Sicko,” not Barbra Streisand).


12 posted on 10/28/2007 1:00:30 PM PDT by HHFi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mylife
She is a Marxist also although probably a poor or middle class Marxist. She is unrepentant.

“None of these problems mean we should abandon the idea of a universal shared system of healthcare. It’s clear we would not want the American model, even if it isn’t quite as bad as portrayed by Moore. It’s clear our British private medical insurance provision is a rip-off. I believe we should as a society share burdens of ill health and its treatment. The only question is how best to do that and it seems to me the state-run, micromanaged NHS has failed to answer it.”

The definition of socialism (Marxism) is state control. Her remedy must be more state control. The idea of markets, economic freedom, and distributed decision making is alien to her at least for health care. The idea that health care is a public good that should be distributed by a central authority is ludicrous. Rationing, long lines, and poor service are the only logical result except if you have the cash to pay for your own health care.

13 posted on 10/28/2007 1:30:01 PM PDT by businessprofessor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: businessprofessor

She is also a dangerous asshat


14 posted on 10/28/2007 1:31:44 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: businessprofessor

I loved the recent article on Britain proposing a 200 pound license to give smokers the “right” to buy $11 a pack cigarettes. By their own admission the fees collected would do nothing but fund the administrative fees of the proposed program. Nothing but expanded Gov. Did I mention that they also would require you to “register as an addict”? on applying for the License?

Madness


15 posted on 10/28/2007 1:37:40 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows
Good article, but Vanity Fair is by William Makepeace Thackery. She seems to be confusing it Pilgrim’s Progress, by John Bunyan.

'the name Vanity Fair comes from John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. . .', ...

16 posted on 10/28/2007 1:40:29 PM PDT by cricket
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: cricket

Well, don’t I feel like a ‘tard. :P

I think my karma just ran over my dogma.


17 posted on 10/28/2007 1:44:19 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("Be deranged in a consistent manner. Manson was nuts, but at least he was always on message." --dead)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: businessprofessor

My personal opinion is that our current system should be scrapped. Administrative fees are out of control, Gov regulation is out of control. I estimate that 25% of your healthcare dollar actually goes to the doctors. the rest is consumed in administrative BS.

I think HSA’s and a direct Patient Doctor relationship would cut down on waste. back that up with Catastrophic insurance to be used in the event of a true need.


18 posted on 10/28/2007 1:44:27 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: mylife
I agree that HSAs especially when started early are a great idea. I would not scrap the idea that companies can provide heath insurance. I would put HSAs and personal insurance on the same level. Bush had some very good ideas about health care reform with HSAs, tort reform, tax deduction reform, and insurance deregulation. SHE and the other rats are trying to find a scapegoat as a lever to power. The RATS are the scapegoat.
19 posted on 10/28/2007 2:25:45 PM PDT by businessprofessor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: businessprofessor

My only Problem with HSA’s is that they still fall under administrative review as proved today.

I have one, and I don’t get to make my own decisions. Well I do but they are subject to review. The reviewers and approvers and the insurance agents all get a salary and are diluting my health care dollar


20 posted on 10/28/2007 2:29:43 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: businessprofessor

Oh...My company ponys up the HSA funds as part of my benefits


21 posted on 10/28/2007 2:30:57 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows
think my karma just ran over my dogma.

Hear ya/lol/;^)

22 posted on 10/28/2007 3:02:13 PM PDT by cricket
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: mylife

Makes you sick, doesn’t it?


23 posted on 10/28/2007 3:13:03 PM PDT by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly our beautiful and free American sky.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: freekitty

Yup. The guy is no dummy


24 posted on 10/28/2007 3:15:49 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

I disagree with you about public housing. There is a legitimate need for it, and it works. But like all good things, the leftists have perverted the idea.
Public housing worked when it was transition housing for low income families. It stopped working when the Liberals decided to build housing dedicated to single mothers, many of whom were practically children themselves, and bar working men from living there.

It isn’t public housing that failed; it’s replacing fathers with gov’t that did.


25 posted on 10/28/2007 3:37:36 PM PDT by speekinout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

Apparently Minette Marrin has been able to see the truth about that slimy creep better than most foreign journalists. Congratulations are in order. I hope my Brit in-laws read this column. One of my Brit brothers in law thinks Moore is great. I tried to explain to him what demagogic liar he is, but he waved me off. He wanted to believe Moore’s lies.


26 posted on 10/28/2007 5:09:14 PM PDT by driftless2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

I found how the World had been misled by prostitute Writers,
to ascribe the greatest Exploits in War to Cowards,
the wisest Counsel to Fools,
Sincerity to Flatterers,
Roman Virtue to Betrayers of their Country,
Piety to Atheists,
Chastity to Sodomites,
Truth to Informers.
(III:8;5)

Jonathan Swift (November 30, 1667 – October 19, 1745)


27 posted on 10/28/2007 5:09:30 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stoat; All
"Sicko, like all Moore’s films, is about an important and emotive subject – healthcare. He contrasts the harsh and exclusive system in the US with the European ideal of universal socialised medicine, equal and free for all, and tries to demonstrate that one is wrong and the other is right. So far, so good; there are cases to be made."

Codswallop. This is the typical view of the British Socialist, though, unfortunately, this view has also become widespread to other "ordinary" British people who have no first-hand familiarity with the American system(s). The reality is that Socialized Medicine was one of the most frightening things (along with the crime) about living in the UK. The quality and the availability of getting appointments were seriously lacking, so much so that one often had to wait months for a simple visit, especially during the winter months. This happened to me and, eventually, I ended up visiting an "alternative" doctor, who had just finished his training and was working from his home.

Another thing that most people don't realize is that the "free" health care one is forced to purchase (it is directly usurped from paychecks) from the NHS is far more expensive than much better private health care policies that can be purchased in the U.S. However, the government's involvement in the health care industry here in the U.S. is also dragging down our own system, and all the "free" care that is given to anyone who desires it through the various government options is driving up both our taxes and insurance costs.

Socialism is based on theft and greed and will NEVER work. Period.

28 posted on 10/29/2007 4:04:17 AM PDT by NH Liberty ("For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus..." [1 Timothy 2:5])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: speekinout
There is a legitimate need for it, and it works.

I agree that there is a need for temporary housing for the indigent.

The problem was that the folks running the public housing programs didn't seem to agree with us.

29 posted on 10/29/2007 6:37:59 AM PDT by syriacus (30,000 Americans died in 30 months in Korea under Truman, to RE-WIN SK's freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: long hard slogger; FormerACLUmember; Harrius Magnus; Lynne; hocndoc; parousia; Hydroshock; ...
Socialized Medicine aka Universal Health Care PING LIST

FReepmail me if you want to be added to or removed from this ping list.
30 posted on 10/29/2007 1:19:24 PM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stoat
Michael Moore is not Mr Valiant-for-truth. He is Mr Worldly-wiseman,
laughing behind his hand at all the gawping suckers...


And when he decides he needs help with his weight, Mr. Moore goes
to a weight-loss clinic in...
Miami, Florida.
Which is within the borders of the USA.

(just have to repeat that little bit of information that John
Stossel passed along in his recent show on US healthcare)
31 posted on 10/29/2007 1:35:18 PM PDT by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VOA
Michael Moore is not Mr Valiant-for-truth. He is Mr Worldly-wiseman,
laughing behind his hand at all the gawping suckers...


And when he decides he needs help with his weight, Mr. Moore goes
to a weight-loss clinic in...
Miami, Florida.
Which is within the borders of the USA.

(just have to repeat that little bit of information that John
Stossel passed along in his recent show on US healthcare)

That's very interesting and excruciatingly relevant, thanks very much!  I hadn't heard about that (probably because I generally avoid reading about Michael Moore as much as I can....I am forced to listen to enough Socialist tripe during the day that I don't go out of my way to seek out more)..  It seems that he is more than willing to inflict Socialized 'medicine' upon 9-11 workers when it provided a photo op for himself that poked his fat, grubby little finger into President Bush's eye but when it comes to his own healthcare needs, Havana isn't on his dance card.

I'm sure that we all recall how Castro went to Spain recently when he needed advanced medical care as well

32 posted on 10/29/2007 7:04:11 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

“I’m sure that we all recall how Castro went to Spain recently when he
needed advanced medical care as well”

Wow! I must have taken a couple of hours off from FR when that was news!

But Stoat, I hope you don’t think I’m being unfair by mentioning the
Stossel/Michael Moore comment.
I’ve visited the UK and have Canadian relatives, so I try to be factual
in discussing “universal healthcare” with my relatives.

I’m sure high, Judeo-Christian motives were in place when the
“socialized medicine” plans were drawn up in the UK and Canada.

My only real critique of those plans arises when they seem to fall so short
that people are not getting their due under those plans...
but the “rich and powerful” of the UK, Canada, Cuba, etc. do by traveling
to those decadent Western countries.

Actually, the ultimate answer for providing the optimal healthcare to
free citizens/subjects...and letting them go have fun (mountain-climbing,
motorcycle-riding, smoke cigarettes etc.) is a question “above my paygrade”.

As for the Stossel-Michael Moore comment...here’s a few links:

Advanced Google Search for all terms:
“Stossel” “Moore” “weight”
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=%22Stossel%22+%22Moore%22+%22weight%22&hl=en&num=100&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images

In particular:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200709160003
excerpt:
Choice gives us power. Michael Moore should know that. After all, when he
at one time weighed about 330 pounds and wanted help losing weight,
where did he go? Not to Cuba or Canada or England or France.
He went to this weight loss spa in Florida. It’s privately run.


33 posted on 10/29/2007 7:47:04 PM PDT by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: VOA
 
“I’m sure that we all recall how Castro went to Spain recently when he
needed advanced medical care as well”

Wow! I must have taken a couple of hours off from FR when that was news!

It was swept under the rug as quickly as possible by the MSM, because it of course invalidates some of the most essential planks of Socialism....can't have that!

If you do a web search (better results in this matter than a 'news' search)  using keyword sequences such as 'castro surgery spain' you'll get lots of hits.  Here are a couple:

Spanish authorities confirm surgeon flew to Cuba to study possible Castro surgery - USATODAY.com

Updated 12/26/2006 11:45 AM ET  
 
 
 
MADRID, Spain (AP) — Spanish authorities confirmed Monday that a leading surgeon who treats ailing Cuban leader Fidel Castro has flown to Havana last week to study whether he should undergo more surgery.

Dr. Jose Luis Garcia Sabrido, chief surgeon at Madrid's Gregorio Maranon hospital, traveled to Cuba's capital Thursday, Madrid region health official Manuel Lamela told reporters.

He also added that Madrid's health department has been sending medicines to Cuba since June, but he declined to say which type of medical material or anything about Castro's condition.

"If I did, I would be revealing the patient's pathology and we would be violating medical confidentiality and the Cuban government's media policy."

He said Spain would continue to give its support and assistance to the Cuban government.

(edit)

************************************************************************************

Reuters AlertNet - Castro surgery seems to have been botched-experts

17 Jan 2007 00:14:18 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Tom Brown

 MIAMI, Jan 16 (Reuters) - Cuban leader Fidel Castro has long prided himself on Cuba's doctors and free public health care system, but that system seems to have let him down after he fell ill in July , U.S.-based doctors said on Tuesday.

Based on a report in Tuesday's edition of Spain's El Pais newspaper, the doctors -- who have no first-hand knowledge of Castro's condition -- said Castro had received questionable or even botched care at the hands of health experts on his communist-ruled island. "It's not a good story. Too bad they didn't send him to Miami for surgery," said Dr. Charles Gerson, a clinical professor of medicine in the gastroenterology division of New York's Mt. Sinai School of Medicine.

According to two medical sources cited by El Pais, the veteran revolutionary was in "very serious" condition after three failed operations on his large intestine for diverticulitis, or pouch-like bulges in the intestine, complicated by infection. The sources in El Pais were from the same Madrid hospital where a surgeon who visited the 80-year-old Castro in late December works.

The Spanish surgeon, Jose Luis Garcia Sabrido, had not changed his opinion that Castro was slowly recovering after stomach surgery for an undisclosed ailment, his secretary said.

(edit)

***************************************************************

Now that I look again at these news stories from that time, I become unsure whether Castro actually had his surgery "in" Spain, but if not then that would be a distinction without a difference, as Spain has been openly supplying Cuba with medical supplies and equipment, and if sturgeons (and medical support staff) are flying back and forth between Madrid and Havana then they are essentially bringing Spain's healthcare system to Cuba, and so it ends up being the same thing.

Castro may have been too sick to travel, so they brought Spain to him after Cuba's healthcare system almost killed him.

But Stoat, I hope you don’t think I’m being unfair by mentioning the
Stossel/Michael Moore comment.

Unfair?  Not in the least.  Stossel has produced some essential, solid stuff.  I'm astonished that anyone with his integrity has been allowed to keep a job in the MSM for as long as he has   :-)

I’ve visited the UK and have Canadian relatives, so I try to be factual
in discussing “universal healthcare” with my relatives.

My hope is that the pursuit of facts is what motivates us all here at FR :-)

I’m sure high, Judeo-Christian motives were in place when the
“socialized medicine” plans were drawn up in the UK and Canada.

I'm sure that there were (and are) countless people involved with the NHS who have the very highest of ideals and intentions.  The problem is that all of these excellent intentions are undermined by the Socialist foundation of it all.  Karl Marx corrupts everything he touches.

My only real critique of those plans arises when they seem to fall so short
that people are not getting their due under those plans...
but the “rich and powerful” of the UK, Canada, Cuba, etc. do by traveling
to those decadent Western countries.

Rush Limbaugh spoke of this today, discussing the current fashion of Britons flying to a variety of countries to gain care that even their private-sector options either couldn't accommodate or could only do after an even greater cost than flying to another country.

Actually, the ultimate answer for providing the optimal healthcare to
free citizens/subjects...and letting them go have fun (mountain-climbing,
motorcycle-riding, smoke cigarettes etc.) is a question “above my paygrade”.

I'm not so sure that it's so complicated  :-)  If we could reduce the frivolous lawsuits and get the malpractice insurance issues under control, I think that Capitalism will tend to balance itself.  The problem is the lawyers, as usual  :-)

As for the Stossel-Michael Moore comment...here’s a few links:

Sincerely appreciated and quite interesting, thank you  :-)

34 posted on 10/29/2007 10:55:49 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson