Wow. I hate to sound like a lib but lethal force is not called for when “protecting your property”. Only in self defense or justifiably perceived threat of personal harm!
Almost everyone knows “you cant shoot someone unless they break into your house” and even that doesn’t hold up in court these days. If you are going to use your car to ram someone just to ‘stop them from getting away’, then you might have to expect to do some prison time if that person dies. I understand they MAY have been committing a crime.
Several states have passed “Shoot the burglar” laws. If someone breaks into your house you can shoot them in the act whether or not they threaten you. In Florida, homeowners are exempt from civil liability.
In Texas we have the right to protect our property with deadly force in case of “theft by night”, but that is here and he is there.
Sad to say this fellow is toast and the perps family will more than likely be living in his house via a hefty lawsuit while he is in the pokey. Evil won this one.
In some states, there exist laws that give homeowners the legal presumption of “reasonable fear” when the homeowner is inside the home and someone breaks into the house.
To my knowledge (and IANAL), Texas is the only state where lethal force may be used to protect property.
It pays to talk to a lawyer (or better yet, a DA) about the laws in one’s state about the use of force (lethal or otherwise) before a need arises to use it.
Looks like the law doesn't agree with you.
Well, in Texas, if someone is breaking and entering, or on your property in the process of doing so, you can legal defend your property with lethal force...as well you should be able to. Someone coming onto your property to steal your belongings MUST be considered as a mortal threat to your person.
Why shouldn’t lethal force be used to protect property? Many people rely on their property to make a living, and need to keep it. They cannot afford weeks of lost income while trying to convince an insurer to pay for what was stolen (which may never happen, if the theft cannot be proven because the thief got away), nor lawyers to bring civil suit against the perp to a) try to convince a judge that the perp took the property, and b) try to collect on a judgement.
ALL crime should be stopped in progress when it is detected in progress. A consistent policy of doing this would greatly change the reasoning processes of people considering committing crimes, in large part because they wouldn’t be operating within a social group consisted almost entirely of people who had committed brazen crimes and gotten away with them.
I have a concealed carry permit and every time I leave my house, I am armed.
I could never justify shooting someone for stealing my property. That's what insurance is for.
Yes, you do sound like a lib.
When someone enters someone else's property with the intent to commit a crime, what prevents them from committing a violent crime to cover it up if caught in the act?
I won't wait to find out, if you know what I mean.
Here in Texas, I have the law on my side, and that is, I can legally use lethal force to stop someone from taking my property.
I suppport this 100%
LLS
I hate to sound like an "outdated American," but all thieves should be responsible for their own actions and should also be responsible for all injuries incurred when others are forced to defend against the actions of the thieves. Those defending their property should only be responsible to the extent that unreasonable or excessive force injuries innocent parties.
It is in Texas.
Only in self defense or justifiably perceived threat of personal harm!
Not in Texas.
Almost everyone knows “you cant shoot someone unless they break into your house”
Bullshit.
and even that doesn’t hold up in court these days.
Bullshit.
If you are going to use your car to ram someone just to ‘stop them from getting away’, then you might have to expect to do some prison time if that person dies. I understand they MAY have been committing a crime.
One final bullshit to you.
Perhaps if you would say in "State" you cannot do "xyz" and include a copy of your law degree you might be taken seriously.
Not today for you.
Yes, you sound like a lib. Kudos to the police for sticking up for the homeowner.
This isn’t a cut and dried case by any means.
I’m not sure of the value of the post hole digger, but if its value puts it over the line causing the theft to be a felony, lethal force MAY be allowed to stop the perps from fleeing the scene.
After listening to the 911 call, it would be iffy in my opinion to claim the land owner was trying to use lethal force. It seems more an incident where he ramed the other car as the perp chose to leave the car, and the unfortunate timing of the events caused the perp to receive a fatal injury.
I don’t believe the land owner is liable for trying to prevent flight.
The sheriff’s tone seems to be one of NOT seeing this as a murder investigation.
This guy may get off without charges being filed.
When you enter someone’s property to steal, you should be in fear of your life IMO. I’m sorry, but this land owner did not seek out victims. They sought his property out and invaded it with evil intent.
If they would have stayed home or applied themselves to worthwhile enterprises, none of this would have transpired. I’m not glad the guy was fatally injured, but them’s the chance you take when you engage in this type of activity.
What would you fear if considering entering another person’s property and taking their equipment? I’ll bet you’d be in fear or serious injury or death. I would be.
The perps knew the risks and unfortunately for them, one of them realized the risk literally.
I have very little sympathy for people who steal, and quite a bit of tollerance for people who wish to prevent people from stealing from them.
Theft of property when the owner is present IS a justifiably perceived threat of personal harm.
You are full of liberal shhite if you think a jury of 12 will send this guy to prison. His intent was to capture the thief, not to kill. This case can be made by any competent Defense Attorney.
Property is acquired through trading money for that property. Work is how we acquire the money. Work requires sacrifice of part of our life for the money earned. Hence, Life=Work=Money=Property. In other words: that property represents part of our life. In my opinion anyone who steals property forfeits their claim to their life due to their disregard for the life of another.
Yes it is!
Those who support these thugs have turned the question around.
Now people ask "Is it worth killing someone to protect your property?"
The right question to ask is, "Is taking your property worth risking my life?"
The Sheriff there disagrees with you. I don’t know what the law is there, but would think the Sheriff of that county does.
From the article:
“Johnston County Sheriff Steve Bizzell said his preliminary findings make it unlikely Reid would be charged.”
Wow. I hate to sound like a lib but lethal force is not called for when “protecting your property”. Only in self defense or justifiably perceived threat of personal harm!
Almost everyone knows “you cant shoot someone unless they break into your house” and even that doesn’t hold up in court these days. If you are going to use your car to ram someone just to ‘stop them from getting away’, then you might have to expect to do some prison time if that person dies. I understand they MAY have been committing a crime..
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That is only the State of Current Law... It is not a given or a moral imperative..and it can and should be changed.
I believe Lethal force is justified in defense of ones property.
The reason we hung Horse thieves is because their theft could lead to the death of others.
Have you ever had anything significant stolen?
I am a disabled GI and older, likely am no longer able to fully recover from such major loss.
If people or corporations are allowed to steal with no real consequence(as they are today). They may indeed be sentencing that person from whom they stole or members of their family to death or impoverishment. Maybe after the theft there is no longer sufficient money for to live other than in a single wide trailer (I have seen that with my now deceased WO friend). Maybe the person whose property was stolen can not turn that asset into something of value for their children’s benefit (I have seen that too). The thief who steals a working mans Truck and tools or fails to pay the moneies owed for a job completed. Perhaps he prevents the honest man from continuing to work so then he can no longer make his house payment.. or pay his other bills.. (I know a man in that situation as we speak)
The Police and others all too often use the self serving argument “insurance will cover it” Poppycock..Insurance other than to cover liability for injury to others is largely a racket anyway. I pay more than 10k for insurance each year now it still does not cover everything anyway.
We all too often seem to fall into the illusion that the thief is stealing a loaf of bread to eat...
That is just not the case in America today..
When someone breaks into a small sailboat and is killed trying to escape (This happened in Marina I was at) it seems terrible right? Until it was revealed the boat was in fact the owners only home and their life savings of 14k was aboard.. Suddenly banging some guy in the head with an oar as he swam away from that boat seemed 100% appropriate to me (The thief drowned...happy day)
Catch someone stealing what you have worked for.. and they are killed in the commission of a crime no matter how sleight they are responsible not you.. You did not ask them to steal from you.
It is a happy day... Win Win for everyone.
Except of course the Criminal, the Courts, the Prisons, Jails, Police Departments and Insurance companies. All who benefit when the criminal victimizes the citizen. Be that criminal a man or a corporation.
It is time to change any law that says it is not.
Just the threat of real consequences coming from ones actions and crooks either with masks or in Suits will quickly and largely cease their conduct.
Making our society a far better place to live, as it once was.
W
Not so in Texas. Since the passage of the castle law burglars can be shot on sight. Before that you had to catch them in the act and it had to be after dark.