Posted on 11/13/2007 7:08:30 AM PST by Responsibility2nd
Took me 3 trys but third time was a charm brains and looks and a damn fine cook.
What she see’s in me is a mystery that has lasted 23 years !
Naw, I'm not so sure about that, but thanks for the sentiments just the same. Mine is just an example of a divorce that worked itself out okay for the aggrieved party---me. It's not a death sentence, in other words, so think of that if you ever find yourself in a similar situation---God forbid. If you trust in the man upstairs, things might very well work out. And I'm in no way a religious man.
Here, here. Though my ex-wife was certainly complicit in the dirty deed, I hold that Jody even more responsible for what happened to me. Last I heard, he was strung out on X and mooching off another broad---my ex-wife wised up, but it took her two years to do so. Users are users, no matter what their denomination.
I certainly hope I live long enough to have the last laugh!
The "soft rebellion" of women isn't actually against God...etc.
Um, no. I wasn't making a reference to rebellion against a god. I was alluding to the female tendency to avoid head-on conflict by outright contradiction. Instead they seem extraordinarily comfortable with acting in "bad faith" as outlined by Sartre. Indeed, so much so they actually seem to be able to persuade themselves they really are passive objects in the narrative of life.
Now your quaint little tableau with aspirations of the "vivant" variety is entertaining, but it's hardly something, like your citation, to be taken seriously. Otherwise, you would be filling in the details I asked about instead of pressing on with your campaign.
I'm reminded of the skeptic that pronounced the Bible "in error" because it refers to a bat as a bird when everyone knows bats are mammals and not birds. Criticism like this is more an indicator of the critic's myopia than anything else.
The Bible never purported to be written by anything other than men inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. Neither does it claim bona fides by the way it "portrays' characters, male or female, nuanced or not.
That being said, your criticism about women as "totally good or totally bad" is totally incorrect. Your claim is refuted in nearly every book, but as an example I point to the wives of Jacob/Israel which should be sufficiently dispositive.
Then you go on to claim women are clearly of lesser value than their male counterparts, but you never define the sense of "value" to which you're referring.
Next, you complain about women the "average woman" can relate to...as if the average man can relate to desert mystics in an aggrarian economy.
In short, your only real problem with the Bible is it doesn't tell you what you want to hear, the way you want to hear it.
This seems to be a fundimental error many secular people make. The question is not "do I like it," but "is it true."
Hardly. That kind of dissimulation is more female in character. Further, it is a needless departure from the real issue the thread is addressing.
The crux of the problem is men and women are two halves of the same whole. Neither is "right by definition" and each has characteristic, though not universal, virtues and vices.
Unfortunately, we live in a time where the vices commonly associated with men are well known and seldom challenged, while the virtues commonly associated with women are well known and seldom challenged. In those cases where a man exhibits a virtue that can not be denied, or a woman exhibits a vice that can not be denied, those qualities are considered traits of that particular individual.
What remains unspoken is that if men have inherent vices, more than likely, so do women, and if so, what are they. If women have inherent virtues, what are the corresponding virtues in men?
Once these virtues and vices are named, the next step is to discover what they look like in everyday life. Everyone will admit they aren't perfect "in principle," but getting them to admit an actual fault "in practice" is another matter entirely.
When women in general take responsibility for some societal evil, only then will they be in a position to attribute some societal evil to men.
Single-dude, presently dating, read-it-later self ping.
If you can find 'em
I don't believe it, and I have never seen an example of it.
When I am speaking of the seeds of serial cheating, I'm not just talking about the obvious causes, often which immediately precede the wandering. The seeds may be planted as far back as the early stages of a relationship: How well did you (the general "you," obviously) know your partner before you first became sexually intimate? How well did you know your partner's family before becoming engaged, getting married? Mistakes made early in a relationship can come back to haunt the couple later--often years later.
Over the years, I've volunteered in a number of non-profits which put me in close contact with women from broken relationships; also, over the course of my entire life, I've had far more "guy" friends than gals (total tomboy). I've heard the arguments from both sides. A few things seem to be very consistent. The women I've known who have wandered, often far and wide, have for the most part been with men who "use" (for lack of a better word) pornography or otherwise show far too much interest in women other than their partner. The men who have strayed have nearly all said the same thing: My partner makes no effort to satisfy my sexual needs. Sad thing is, the cure for both of those all too common ills is communication, but in so many ways we really are a repressed bunch of folks, us Americans. We can tell dirty jokes without blushing, but we can't discuss matters of sexual intimacy with the men and women we've sworn to God to cherish.
Crazy!
The single most important gift we can give our children is a stable, two-parent, man and wife relationship. A steadfast marriage should (but often is not) be more important than the relationship between parent and child, because the success of the second is dependant upon the first. So there's the best case scenario.
In spite of a couple's best efforts--or maybe with no effort at all, it really doesn't make a difference--a marriage fails, and there are children involved. The children have already had the thing they need most taken from them. To force those kids into further instability by making them divide their time equally between two parents serves only the selfish desires of the parents, certainly not the best interest of the kids. Inherent instability! Imagine you had a career in which you had to spend two weeks in one office, then two weeks in another. Maybe those offices have a few similarities, but there are going to be some very different dynamics at play. Different physical surroundings. Different office mates. Different rules--sometimes subtley different, sometimes overtly different. That would be difficult for most adults to cope with.
So look at what you're asserting is in the best interest of a child: Two households; two neighborhoods, probably; two sets of rules; two different styles of food; two different kinds of free time. As an adult, you may want to think "Hey, that sounds exciting!" To a child, that means chaos. Add into that mix the very real fact that mommy and daddy are back on the market. Said children are then going to have a whole new set of often revolving adults flitting in and out of their lives. You want I should believe that this is good for a kid? Were you ever a kid?
Nuts!
Once again, we agree.
PLUS, this inevitably fosters in the child the idea that he has family-options. Who’s making the better offer? Mom lets me watch TV until 10; Dad makes me stop at 8. Advantage: Mom. And so forth. There’s nothing good FOR THE CHILD about that.
Plus one more should-be-DUH consideration. As a very wise person put it: “These two people couldn’t agree to stay married, but they’re going to agree about raising the child?”
I know it sounds cliche but church is a decent recon spot.
at least in Dixie
I should add this, though, several hours later: What I am asserting is not meant as an admonition but as a warning. Those who do not accept the fact that they share in the demise of a relationship are putting future relationships in jeopardy. You know, that whole “Those who do not study the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them” yadda yadda.
God bless you.
Some, yes, some no.
Was the Bible written by holy men?
IMHO, men no different than the ‘holy’ men who post here-—
Most who see women as bad, some who see the world and genders as equal. And these holy men, some where no more than secretaries, scribes, storytellers. Just putting into writing what had been passed down for generations.
Just the action of recording the stories was a holy endeavor, story tellers have always had great value in societies, expecially as living records and transferring history from one generation the next. But like all humans, their ingrained beliefs colored the stories.
Fears, dislikes, common superstitions, customs etc. are woven into the fabric of what they wrote.
So the Bible is written like that. Very much shaped by the bias and beliefs of the writers, sometimes subtle, sometimes blatant and yes, it often changes the meaning, tone and fabric of the text. The bible is a great book that has faults, more visible to some than to others. Yes, it’s clear to me that every female in the Bible is written through the eye of a male. Not a negative, just a biased eye. And clearly not understanding how females are different (See, I do believe that men and women are different). How a book of the Old South written by a slave owner would carry the bias of such an individual.
See, different is just that, different. However, in Biblical terms, the difference female is lesser in her difference.
So while the men are described and written about with scope of knowledge, the women are a like zephyrs, they aren’t real to another woman...either all good, all bad, all faithful, all disloyal etc. Yes, lesser beings, that’s very clear. Very much lesser.
So a book full of such a clear bias is supposed to be my ‘eureka’ moment? It reads like a book on mountain climbing written by someone who’d never seen a mountain would write it....someone with great stories, a fabulous imagination and a strong ethical and moral fiber.
But no, you can’t climb Everest in a day in a bikini....and no, sherpas aren’t pink midgets....Erm, yes, snow is white, but it isn’t marshmallow cream.
Look, for decades, from birth, there was hardly a waking moment of my life that wasn’t full of church, bible, Sunday school, choir practice, Jesus etc.... granted, it was presented by those with a strong biases, those who hated me, hated females etc, so I developed an equally strong mistrust before I even hit elementary school.
To survive, I had to question everything they said, everything they believed, everything they ingrained in me. Like sharpnel, I'll be pulling out chunks until I die. But trust what them? No. To trust what they told me would me I wasn't worth my skin.
Even in adulthood, I couldn’t reconcile the inner “something is wrong with this picture” with what I was told. I would say the words, pray the prayers, confess the confessions.........but it wasn’t connecting. Even those I was honest enough to tell “I don’t understand” would give me these magic words to say “Do you believe that Jesus is the son of god, raised from the dead ....etc (you know the drill)” and I’d say “Well, yes, of course, but that isn’t the problem...”
And there they would stand there, with this puzzled look....as if the something they were expecting to happen didn’t.... Sorry, no fireworks, no being slain in the spirit, no speaking in tongues, no being filled with holy ghost.
Granted, I’d been hearing this since birth, and mixed in with everything else that was disturbed around me, I guess it was tainted and biased too. Trust isn’t in me.....never was, never will be. Funny, but that is what I believe is essential to human faith and religion. It’s like being color blind....I can’t see red. However, God is Red. Too bad....he hates color blind folks too.
Sheesh, I knew I was screwed then.
I tried different denominations, different churches, different Bibles even. I asked, and asked and asked questions. I was really trying to find why I found so much not to trust and why I couldn’t simple believe. So much so that I even married a ‘man of the cloth’, partially because I thought he could help me understand. Even now, my bookshelves are full of all the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, all of CS Lewis. I’ve read them all. Nice men, nice words. Lots of truth, but lots of ‘you don’t get it do you?” Moments also.
So much is supposed to be logical, yet so much is supposed to be based on emotion and yes, blind faith. And yet, there was the frustration that I felt, and yes, that I know I created in others when I questioned. I wasn’t trying to be difficult, I simply did not GET what I was supposed to be GETTING. Often I faked it just to fit in.....
I quit going to church for that reason...because I felt like I was lying every time I walked in the doors. Not like a sinner, but like someone who was pretending to be someone and something they weren’t.
And the relief was mutual when I left, let me tell you. Maybe I’m damned, maybe I truly am a reprobate. I know that God would rather have me look him in the eye and say “I just don’t understand.” But I’m not pretending anymore
So,
Is it true? Some is, some isn’t.
Can I trust God? No more than I trust any other stranger. Is the Bible biased against women? Lets just say it's easy to find.
A. You didn't answer my question BUT B. You answered another question. So basically, it's on women's shoulders to 'fix' things? OK....Now I know who I'm talking to.
The biggest male fault is giving up or not trying. It happens more than you’d think.
Thank you. :)
Don't be absurd. If you can get what you wrote out of what I wrote, you can get Blackbeard's treasure map out of a fortune cookie.
That is precisely the kind of rhetorical "bait and switch" that caused me to adopt my tagline from the lovely and talented Ann Coulter.
If you want any more credibility than a child crying through splayed fingers, I suggest you leave such fatuity behind.
I have to ask you...where do you get all these confident assertions?
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