Posted on 12/06/2007 5:29:42 AM PST by ShadowDancer
Michigan House Passes Ban On Smoking In Bars, Restaurants
POSTED: 7:47 am EST December 6, 2007
UPDATED: 8:10 am EST December 6, 2007
Smoking in Michigan workplaces, including bars and restaurants, would be banned under legislation passed by the Democratic-led state House.
The vote is a victory for supporters, who have been pushing the measure for a decade.
But it may not get very far in the Senate because majority Republicans oppose it.
Backers say a majority of state residents want a broad workplace smoking ban, and point to the harmful effects of secondhand smoke on employees and patrons.
Opponents say smoking is legal and government shouldn't interfere with the rights of private property owners.
Casinos, horse tracks, bingo halls, cigar bars and smoke shops would be exempt from the smoking ban.
What's even sadder is the increasing prevalence of this self-serving disregard for conservative reasoning on a website that is supposed to be a bastion of strong, principled conservatism.
That’s why my hatred of them has become so great. It’s the arrogance.
“No, this is going to be a great blessing for the Bars. Since the Smoking Ban in New York, I’ve been able to stay out longer and not feel as bad the next day. So instead of just going out on a Thursday or Friday, I’d be able to go out for an after work drink or two on Monday/Tuesday or Wednesday.”
I know I am very late to the party, but do you fully understand what you just said? Either you are calling these private business owners ignorant of their own market or you are begging for the state to ensure that you don’t have to take the risk to start a bar that caters to like minded individuals. Who is infringing on your ability to open a smoke free venue or to convince a property owner to cater to those who would appreciate a smoke free environment?
So, please confirm it to us. Do you think private business people are just plain stupid or are you just lazy?
Well, here’s a simple question. If a business wants to hire illegal immigrants, do we have a right to tell them no?
Why did you not answer CSM’s question?
Are businessmen stupid and lazy?
The one’s who fail while facing the exact same changes as everybody else are stupid.
And everybody is lazy in business, they want to take the easiest way to make the most money.
If we gave bars and restaurants the chance they would have us repeal all the health codes as an infringement on their freedoms. They shouldn’t be forced to throw moldy food out, they shouldn’t be forced to keep the mice out of the soup, the free market would take care of everything.
If bars and restaurants were really closing down in the numbers the chicken littles claim, if it was really destroying the quality of those bars and restaurants, then the populace would rise up and vote out the idiots. But they don’t people like this ban. Just like they like mice-free soup.
When I cannot get out of a deer blind and have to deal with no smoke in a bar then I will have to stop drinking and hunting.
I apologise for my typo - there should have been an “S” on the word ‘question.’
“Everybody” in business is lazy????? You apparently have never owned a business. I do, and have for over 20 years. I also own and maintain a home, have a husband and a 9 year old child.
Being lazy is not waking up until 8am after having gone to bed about 2am.
Smoker bans are not in the same category as health codes. Health codes protect the clientele from that which they can not see. I should know, as one aspect of my business involves making food.
Determiing if an establishment permits smoking is extremely easy. Determining if hygiene is maintained in the kitchen is not.
“And everybody is lazy in business, they want to take the easiest way to make the most money.”
I seem to recall reading the same commentary on DU. You ever get a job from a non-business person? You should take your anti-private property, anti-capitalism, socialist policy loving attitude back to DU.
Do you also support the Kelo decision?
The reality is that only the weak in our society favor the use of government force to ensure that their preferences are catered to. By celebrating these policies you are admitting that you are to weak to use the market to ensure your preferences are catered to. If you were truly capable to take care of yourself you would either use your own capital and effort to create a business to cater to folks that share your preferences, or you would work with owners of established businesses to convince them to cater to your preferences. Instead, you rejoice when the government forces others to cater to you.
Personally I would like the government to keep as far away from my life as possible. To bad so many in our society are not as willing to take care of themselves and would prefer socialist policies to be implemented by the government to replace their parents.
I answer your questions, why won’t you answer mine?
Great post!
Because I don’t take the bait for changing subjects or hijacking threads. Stick to the topic of the thread.
Okay, so voters tend to favor these bans and they aren't catastrophic to the economy (though they may still be harmful). Is that the end of the story?
Should voters be able to dictate any policy they want to a private business? Should they be able to dictate what condiments are available in a restaurant, how the walls are to be decorated, or what prices may be charged?
Where do YOU draw the line?
Thank you. I’ve explained that same point on here a couple of other times when discussing this topic. Sadly, it usually gets ignored by the pro-ban types.
And the topic of the thread is “How much control should a society have over a private business.”
So where do you draw the line and why?
I say we should ban shell fish and peanuts from “public places.” We all know that these items present a real threat to some members of our society and that those members are to weak to just stay out of seafood restaurants and country bars!
Fine. If the government did their job, illegal immigrants would not be available for hire. Instead of addressing the root of the problem, you would prefer to blame the private business owner. Typical short sited convenient conservative.
You really should read some of Thomas Sowell’s works, you might learn what “stage 1 thinking” is and why it is so dangerous.
But if government did their job, then the bars and restaurants would go out of business because they couldn’t afford to pay the salary of American workers.
Though I know you are being sarcastic, I think there is actually a much stronger case for banning those items in restaurants than there is for banning smoking.
The average patron entering a restaurant may not know whether peanuts or shellfish are served until they sit down and look at the menu, or ask the waiter. In the unlikely event someone doesn't find out in time, the results could be immediately fatal.
Compare that with smoking. Most anti's will tell us that smoke is so noxious that they can smell it from a mile away and thus a separate non-smoking section would never work. That being the case, they should be able to INSTANTLY tell whether there is tobacco smoke in a restaurant, just by walking in the place. And whatever the long-term dangers of second-hand smoke may be, I think we can say with confidence that inadvertently walking into a smoky bar every once in a while is not going to kill anyone.
Of course I don't think smoking, shellfish, or peanuts should be banned from restaurants. Smoking is too easy to avoid, and so are shellfish and peanuts (thought to a slightly smaller degree). Even if these substances are a terrible danger, you can protect the public by simply requiring restaurants to give warning.
Still, the fact that no one seriously calls for banning these more dangerous substances shows the true nature behind most smoking bans. It's not any kind of legitimate and necessary exercise of government power, it's simply the majority imposing their preferences against the rights of the business owner.
Thanks for affirming my statement about your need to read some Sowell. Don’t look now, but your ignorance regarding economics and business is showing.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.