Posted on 12/08/2007 11:30:00 AM PST by sevenbak
“...the Only Begotten Son in the flesh...”
I’ve never gotten into an LDS thread before, but I have a question. This statement is true, but misleading, from what I have read. Does not LDS Doctrines and Covenants describe Elohim’s other “spirit” children, including Lucifer (called Perdition), making him a brother of Jesus?
That, if true, seems to mark a huge difference between orthodox Christianity and LDS beliefs. How do LDS members interpret/explain this?
Wrong again! LOL...I’m 19 OLDER, darn it!
The Mormon Church's teachings on the relationship between Jesus and Lucifer are clearly explained, along with annotations, here.
That, if true, seems to mark a huge difference between orthodox Christianity and LDS beliefs.
That is just one of many fundamental differences between Mormonism and Christianity. You can see a description of a few more issues here.
I’m 58, you’re 39.
Actually I’m 62, I was 58 when I joined.
Well, OK then.
It most emphatically is not. Different, challenging yes, but not a cult. But so what if it were? Even cults deserve religious freedom. But must a man subscribe to the scrutinies of dogmatic gatekeepers?
Of course not, except in certain parts of the Republican Party. Our enemies know this, and have exploited this rift to the embarrassment of us all. I am shocked, that even in the season of advent, when the world is ripe for evangelism, some sanctimonius Christians call into question the salvation of others whose testimonies and confessions are as genuine as any I have any heard.
He does reveal himself to believers and also to non-believers before they become believers, but not in a physical, visible way. It's hard to explain, but He reveals Himself through scripture to those who are honestly seeking Him.
“He was the brother of Satan”
Only in the sense that the Father begot the spirits of all, including Christ and Lucifer (son of the morning).
“God had sexual relations with Mary to conceive Christ.”
That is a lie, we believe in the virgin birth and always have. The BoM testifies of it as well, that Marry conceived by miracle and gave birth as a virgin.
No, nobody is to worship Joseph Smith, we don’t. But if you say you accept Christ while you reject his true prophet at the same time you are fooling yourself.
“Revelation 22:18”
It was not a declaration that there would be no more scripture. After John wrote it he went on to write some other parts of the New Testament.
It was a command to men to not alter what was in Revelation and it in no way bars God from providing more scripture. A similar command is found in Deut 4:2.
“Please tell me which of your prophets declared that polygamy was good. Please tell me which of your prophets declared later, to gain statehood, that all of a sudden polygamy was bad.”
Polygamy was something that was only permitted at certain times as determined by God’s wisdom. Sometimes he commands it, sometimes he forbids it. The conduct of the church has been consistent with that.
“Please tell me which of your prophets declared that non-whites couldn’t attain the “priesthood.” Please tell me which of your prophets in the 1960’s declared that non-whites could attain the “priesthood.””
Brigham Young said the day would come when they would get the priesthood too, and so in the late 70’s (not the 60’s) that day came. Again, not a change in doctrine, but the fulfillment of a promise.
“Please tell me why there are some self-declared Mormons even now who claim polygamy is good. They claim they are just following the prophetical declarations of Joseph Smith.”
Any member known to be practicing polygamy is excommunicated, even if the country where they live allow it by law. People in these splinter groups who practice polygamy are no more Mormons than Lutherans are Catholics.
Also, seeing as there are Catholics who think birth control and divorce are OK, and other ministers in orthodox faiths rejecting the divinity of Christ, why is the opinion of a ‘self-declared Mormon’ worth anything?
It wasn’t ‘open season’ for any guy to get as many as he wanted. A man would have to be asked by the church to take a plural wife before the church would marry him to another woman, so only a small percentage of people actually were practicing it.
I didn't say that. Are you quoting someone else?
It clearly sounds to me that Mormons are Christians although some of their teachings are a little odd.
At any rate, Christian or not, Mormons have set an example of personal and group integrity, morality, and strong family values which are an asset to America. And THAT is all that matters to me.
I would vote for a Jewish conservative or a Buddhist or Hindu conservative for President who held those values and personally, although Romney is not my first choice on purely political issues, I’m getting sick and tired of hearing from so-called “Christians” that Mormons are demons and we shouldn’t support him because he is a Mormon.
They probably wouldn’t support a conservative Catholic. Maybe they should get their hoods and sheets back from the dry cleaners for a cross-burning rally somewhere - like in the Aleutians.
As clearly explained here with annotations, Mormonism teaches that Jesus, Lucifer and all mortals on this earth were originally born as spirit children to God the Father and his wife in a pre-mortal life. Angels, devils, mortals and gods are regarded as the same species but in different stages of advancement or judgment. The two oldest sons were Jesus and Lucifer. Lucifer convinced one-third of his brothers and sisters to join him in rebellion and were expelled from Heaven.Christians consider this blasphemous.
The Mormon Church teaches: “God had sexual relations with Mary to conceive Christ.” ... that is a lie, we believe in the virgin birth and always have. The BoM testifies of it as well, that Marry conceived by miracle and gave birth as a virgin.
As clearly explained with annotations here (beginning at the bottom of p. 179), and here (beginning in the section titled LITERAL SON OF GOD), Mormon theology teaches that God is a man and that Christ was conceived through a sexual act between Mary and God the Father. In other words, the birth of Christ is considered a natural, rather than a miraculous occurrence.Putting the two doctrines together: according to Mormon theology, since Mary was the spirit daughter of God the Father, and since God the Father had physical sexual relations with Mary, God the Father essentially committed incest when He begat Jesus. Christians also consider this blasphemous.Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., said: "The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit" (Religious Truths Defined, p.44). The late President Joseph Fielding Smith declared: "Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.18).
Christians also consider this blasphemous.
You wrote: The BoM testifies ...
As you can see HERE, there are many important LDS doctrines which are not found in the Book of Mormon.In fairness to you: It has been my experience in talking with Mormons over the years that many LDS members are not aware of all their church's teachings. This is due in part to the practices of progressive revelation as one "matures spiritually" and/or "progresses" in Mormonism.Moreover, as explained with annotations HERE, there are many key doctrines found in Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price which clearly contradict Book of Mormon scripture.
It has also been my experience Mormons are often troubled when they discover some of the their church's doctrine.
Both Mormonism and Christianity teach the eternal future of your immortal soul depends on the decisions you make during your lifetime. It is therefore essential for us to "get things right." With this in mind, I encourage you to study and above websites and let me know if you find any of their statements in error.
I wish you the best in your quest for the truth.
Are you sure about that?
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).
AND
"The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit." (Religious Truths Defined, p. 44) as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1854, Salt Lake City, Utah 84110, Bookstore at 1350 South West Temple. 1982, page 260).AND
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 547.)AND
"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 211)
So who is lying? Me? You? The Mormon church? Someone out there is teaching that God had sex with Mary.
Every person I know that advocated plurally marriage was excommunicated.
The misinformation on this web site flows like water down the Mississippi
The first place this is stated in the Bible is Deuteronomy 4:2.
Are we to discard all the Bible beyond that?
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