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Human Evolution Seems to Be Accelerating (Jews evolved from "financing!")
AP via Fox News ^ | 12-11-07

Posted on 12/11/2007 8:28:45 AM PST by squireofgothos

above-average intelligence in Ashkenazi Jews — those of northern European heritage — resulted from natural selection in medieval Europe, where they were pressured into jobs as financiers, traders, managers and tax collectors.

Those who were smarter succeeded, grew wealthy and had bigger families to pass on their genes, they suggested. That evolution also is linked to genetic diseases such as Tay-Sachs and Gaucher in Jews.

The new study was funded by the Department of Energy, the National Institute of Mental Health, the National Institute of Aging, the Unz Foundation, the University of Utah and the University of Wisconsin.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: ashkenazi; ashkenazim; evolution; genes; genetics; godsgravesglyphs; jews; macroevolution; naturalselection; oy; race; racerelations; races; racial; racism; racist; racists
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Oh this is too good. These guys are starting to sound like Jimmy the greek. DO NOT give an interview after drinking, or you end up with "science" like this: "you see now, (taking drink), your wily, covetous jew got into financing millions of years ago, and took all the white women, and (another drink) and that's why your black man has the big thighs for the sports..."
1 posted on 12/11/2007 8:28:46 AM PST by squireofgothos
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To: squireofgothos

Hey! Ya forgot the diamond cutters!


2 posted on 12/11/2007 8:33:27 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast ( "Do well, but remember to do good.")
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To: squireofgothos
Yet in Sweden and Denmark, the gene that makes the milk-digesting enzyme lactase remains active, so almost everyone can drink fresh milk, explaining why dairy farming is more common in Europe than in the Mediterranean and Africa, Harpending says.

Life without milkshakes! Eat your wheat curds, my African FRiends. I will suck down another chocolate shake and my aryan tummy will digest it all! Lactase power!

3 posted on 12/11/2007 8:34:15 AM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: squireofgothos

I think what they were trying to say, in a particularly garbled way, is not that Jews in Europe got smarter, but that less smart Jews died off, raising the average and shortening the range.
Instead of 50-150 it would now be 75 to 150 because from 50 to 74’s died off disproportionately.


4 posted on 12/11/2007 8:35:34 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: From many - one.

“that Jews in Europe got smarter”

Lot of good that did them in 1939-43.


5 posted on 12/11/2007 8:39:19 AM PST by dblshot
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To: squireofgothos; Alouette; Zionist Conspirator
above-average intelligence in Ashkenazi Jews — those of northern European heritage — resulted from natural selection in medieval Europe, where they were pressured into jobs as financiers, traders, managers and tax collectors

ZC this covers most of your baselines.

Fascinating theory! It wasn't 3 millenia of painstaking study of the Torah that drove "the evolution of Jewish intelligence": i.e. generations and generations of daughters of accomplished scholars marrying accomplished scholars - it was making change that did it.

And of course, they have IQ tests showing how much stupider the Prophets and Sages were back before the King of France ordered the Jews to take up tax-farming and smartened them up.

Mastering 15th century accounting is so much more difficult that mastering Gemara.

6 posted on 12/11/2007 8:39:33 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: squireofgothos

REAL/MACRO evolution means new kinds of organs and new kinds of capabilities. You got some sort of evidence of Jews with wings or anything like that?


7 posted on 12/11/2007 8:45:41 AM PST by jeddavis
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To: squireofgothos
Those who were smarter succeeded, grew wealthy and had bigger families to pass on their genes, they suggested.

In that case, we're obviously undergoing reverse evolution now. The more successful people are in today's world, the fewer children they have.

8 posted on 12/11/2007 8:47:09 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: squireofgothos

with 75% of them voting democratic every year, i wouldnt say they are all that smart.


9 posted on 12/11/2007 8:47:49 AM PST by philsfan24
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To: wideawake; squireofgothos; Alouette; Zionist Conspirator
I don't see what the big issue is here. Jews got smarter because of natural selection. Through 15 centuries of oppression, the Jews who were smarter could get the positions necessary to ensure (more or less) that they were protected, and had the financial resources to have larger families better provided for, more children surviving to adulthood, better prospects for other high-IQ mates, and so forth, so they would have higher IQ children, hence the average Ashkenazi IQ moved up over time. What's so controversial or hard to understand about that?

Question for the people who think that any talk about IQ and heredity automatically equals eugenics and Naziism - If you accept the principle of natural selection, which even most creationists as well as all evolutionists accept, then why can you not see the same principle at work here? On a scientific level, do you think human genetics operates any differently from that of the animals, which we routinely breed for the purposes of expressing specific traits?

10 posted on 12/11/2007 8:49:27 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: philsfan24
with 75% of them voting democratic every year, i wouldnt say they are all that smart.

Well, intelligence and common sense are not necessarily contiguous traits.

11 posted on 12/11/2007 8:49:59 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I think it’s primarily the financing that makes it funny. Next, the Pakistani’s are going to evolve a spatula arm to flip the hot dogs at the 7-11’s


12 posted on 12/11/2007 8:51:12 AM PST by squireofgothos
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To: jeddavis

So-called macro-evolution is an invention of some Creationists who want to draw an (invisible) line that blocks evolutionary changes from reaching the level of a new species (a population that can’t breed with the original).

No one has ever proposed a way for the organism to know it has reached that bordered and promptly stop accumulating mutations.


13 posted on 12/11/2007 8:53:42 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: From many - one.

bordered = border


14 posted on 12/11/2007 8:55:04 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
I don't see what the big issue is here. Jews got smarter because of natural selection.

Except for the inconvenient fact that the vast majority of the Jews who worked in finance and the professions were murdered during the Second World War, and the bulk of modern Jewry are descendants of the dirt poor shtetl Jews of Poland and the Ukraine and the similarly circumstanced Mizrachim of Northern Africa.

It is obvious that from the days of at least the Babylonian Captivity the Jews had a reputation as a highly learned and competent population.

15 posted on 12/11/2007 8:56:17 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: From many - one.
No one has ever proposed a way for the organism to know it has reached that bordered and promptly stop accumulating mutations

The border, obviously, is the point where members of what was formerly one species are no longer able to successfully interbreed due to mutation. Mulism.

This is hardly an invention of creationists, but an internal assumption of evolutionism.

16 posted on 12/11/2007 8:59:15 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake

exactly. It isn’t brain surgery- apparently this particular family/tribe of Jews, which has proven itself to be freakishly bright, obviously was sired by a very bright fellow, and he attracted intelligent women, and so on and so forth through the generations. Not being able to marry outside the faith obviously kept the high iq genes at home.


17 posted on 12/11/2007 8:59:35 AM PST by squireofgothos
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To: jeddavis
You got some sort of evidence of Jews with wings or anything like that?

Those were the ones who built the Pyramids.

18 posted on 12/11/2007 8:59:38 AM PST by nina0113 (If fences don't work, why does the White House have one?)
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To: squireofgothos
where they were pressured into jobs as financiers, traders, managers and tax collectors.

They say Einstein couldn't balance his own checkbook and was a disaster with money. It didn't matter much. Silly article.

19 posted on 12/11/2007 9:00:21 AM PST by montag813
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To: squireofgothos
I’ve just been learning about Ashkenazi Jews vs. other (original) Jews. I guess there is a controversy there. What do Freepers think? Are the Ashkenazi Jews the same as the original Jews or did a group of white Europeans choose to become Jews for religious and political reasons? Do these Jews feel superior to the others? Anyone care to touch this with a ten foot pole?
20 posted on 12/11/2007 9:03:09 AM PST by mommya
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To: wideawake
Except for the inconvenient fact that the vast majority of the Jews who worked in finance and the professions were murdered during the Second World War, and the bulk of modern Jewry are descendants of the dirt poor shtetl Jews of Poland and the Ukraine and the similarly circumstanced Mizrachim of Northern Africa.

Many educated Jews escaped Europe before the darkness completely took hold, and you err in assuming that financial circumstances in the 19th century (when most European Jews came to America) necessarily indicates the ancestral circumstances of these Jews' forebearers. Being kicked out of one country for being too successful, and being shut out of opportunities for advancement in the country you've fled to, will result in your being a "dirt-poor shtetl", even if you've got a 150 IQ.

It is obvious that from the days of at least the Babylonian Captivity the Jews had a reputation as a highly learned and competent population.

Not so. There's nothing from classical times to suggest that the Jews were especially on the ball ahead of other peoples, intellect-wise. They were certainly outshone in just about every area of intellectual endeavour by the Greeks, and their insistence on revolting from the Romans every couple of decades, even when they were certain to be crushed mercilessly, while showing a certain amount of bravery, also demonstrates some blockheaded stupidity.

21 posted on 12/11/2007 9:09:06 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: wideawake

So, as if by magic, in order to prevent evolution, they just stop?

And what has mulism got to do with it.


22 posted on 12/11/2007 9:09:08 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: mommya
Arthur Koestler thought that an Asiatic Tribe called the Khazars converted to Judaism in the 10th century or so and that Ashkenazi Jews are descendant from them. He put forward the theory in the hopes that it would deflect accusations from Deicide from contemporary Jews who would have no connection to Roman era JEws. Today the theory is favored by Neo Nazis and Muslims as it also invalidates Jewish claims to the Holy Land.
23 posted on 12/11/2007 9:12:41 AM PST by Borges
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To: From many - one.

Or that female Jews would only marry, (and thus have children for) males with the intelligence or ability to make a lot of money.


24 posted on 12/11/2007 9:14:38 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus; wideawake

To throw in my two cents . . . I think women like funny men. They choose them. Men get wittier and wittier. I am a prime example of this trend.


25 posted on 12/11/2007 9:18:43 AM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: mommya
Genetic studies confirm that Ashkenazim Jews are descended from Middle Eastern peoples. They are lighter skin either due to sexual selection (being raised among a lighter skinned population might make them think that lighter skin was ‘sexy’) slight interbreeding, or natural selection for increased Vitamin D synthesis.
26 posted on 12/11/2007 9:19:48 AM PST by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD (Hunter 08))
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To: Borges

AS I understand it, DNA analysis has more or less disproved the Khazar theory.

While the Khazars did indeed “adopt Judaism,” it is likely that this applied primarily or only to the royal family and high aristocracy, not to the entire nation, which probably was dispersed anyway among the very fluid gene-mixing of the medieval steppe.


27 posted on 12/11/2007 9:20:22 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: From many - one.
So, as if by magic, in order to prevent evolution, they just stop?

If by "magic" you mean the established science called "genetics", then yes.

When the chromosomal information of two lineages becomes too disparate, the ability to interbreed is lost.

And what has mulism got to do with it.

A mule is the offspring of a species known as Equus caballus and another species known as Equus asinus - the two species are very closely related and evolutionists consider them to have a common acnestor.

However, when they mate, the union - called a mule or a hinny - rarely produces offspring and these offspring are almost always unable to reproduce (there are fewer than 100 documented cases of mules reproducing and one documented case of the offspring of mules reproducing in recorded history).

This demonstrates that when a certain threshhold of genetic diversity or mutation is reached, the ability to interbreed is lost.

28 posted on 12/11/2007 9:20:53 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: From many - one.
So, as if by magic, in order to prevent evolution, they just stop?

And what has mulism got to do with it.

Er, well, if they can't breed anymore, then they can't pass on genetic heritage.

29 posted on 12/11/2007 9:21:12 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: wideawake
This demonstrates that when a certain threshhold of genetic diversity or mutation is reached, the ability to interbreed is lost.

I was going to make a joke about West Virginia here, but I'll refrain.

30 posted on 12/11/2007 9:23:15 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: sportutegrl

Rather odd that this phenomenon had a greater impact on a subset of Jews than other parts of humankind.


31 posted on 12/11/2007 9:23:37 AM PST by Deut28 (Cursed be he who perverts the justice)
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To: Borges
Arthur Koestler thought that an Asiatic Tribe called the Khazars converted to Judaism in the 10th century or so and that Ashkenazi Jews are descendant from them. He put forward the theory in the hopes that it would deflect accusations from Deicide from contemporary Jews who would have no connection to Roman era JEws. Today the theory is favored by Neo Nazis and Muslims as it also invalidates Jewish claims to the Holy Land.

The Kagan of the Khazars, and the aristocracy, converted to Judaism, but it's unlikely that the bulk of the common people did.

32 posted on 12/11/2007 9:24:50 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: wideawake
It is obvious that from the days of at least the Babylonian Captivity the Jews had a reputation as a highly learned and competent population.

It's interesting. A good friend of mine recently told me that there was no evidence of any exodus across the desert from Egypt. But "modern scientists" thought it was possible that Moses and the Jews were actually a band of about 20 raiders who crossed the desert--and then the story just got out of hand over time.

I pointed out that the Old Testament has no peer in the pre-Greek world. It stands utterly by itself. For example, almost every major idea in modern philosophy appears in Genesis, well developed and well thought out. The culture required to sustain such an oral (later a written) tradition could not possibly have been 20 guys raiding caravans. Surprisingly, other civilizations of that time (the Babylonians and Egyptions) were much more powerful and wealthy. But they produced nothing comparable to Pentateuch, which is the granddaddy of one of the two intellectual traditions that produced the modern world.

I don't think most people stop and think about what truly remarkable folks the ancient Jews really were. The Torah and the Bible are just facts of life to us today. It is uttely astonishing the Torah was produced at that time.

33 posted on 12/11/2007 9:25:24 AM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: From many - one.

Your definition of a new species, while almost universally accepted, is flawed.

How would the first of a new species procreate if it can’t breed with the species it originated from? Did two of the new species evolve simultaneously, one male and one female? Is the first of each new species capable of asexual reproduction?


34 posted on 12/11/2007 9:25:53 AM PST by Deut28 (Cursed be he who perverts the justice)
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To: Deut28
Rather odd that this phenomenon had a greater impact on a subset of Jews than other parts of humankind.

Not necessarily. IIRC, genetic change becomes more marked in a smaller interbreeeding population than in a larger one.

35 posted on 12/11/2007 9:26:17 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: squireofgothos

Well, that milk-drinking observation is bogus. All normal human beings can digest milk as infants. It’s only if they get weaned and then avoid milk for years that they lose the ability to digest it.

Asians and Africans who grow up in milk-drinking cultures can drink milk.


36 posted on 12/11/2007 9:28:27 AM PST by Gingersnap
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

So then you would expect to see very similar results from similar sized interbreeding populations?

There are plenty of such examples in the world. It would be quite interesting if this study compared comparable samples, but the results would likely lead to more questions than answers.


37 posted on 12/11/2007 9:29:52 AM PST by Deut28 (Cursed be he who perverts the justice)
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To: wideawake

Dang! Now if only I’d been a counter drudge I’d have become a genius! Of course, I can’t do math anyway, so no one would want me as a counter drudge.


38 posted on 12/11/2007 9:36:10 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Vayo'mer "'Ani Yosef 'achiykhem 'asher-mekhartem 'oti Mitzraymah.")
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To: Deut28
So then you would expect to see very similar results from similar sized interbreeding populations?

Well, in modern times, I'm not sure that we have a comparable sample population. And even then, it depends on what traits are being selected for. Intelligence is only one trait among many, and the benefits to a trait are at least partially determined by the environmental needs.

In ancient times, however, I would submit that the branching off of the original populations for the various races of man show what happens when small isolate population breed endogamously.

39 posted on 12/11/2007 9:38:40 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus; wideawake
Question for the people who think that any talk about IQ and heredity automatically equals eugenics and Naziism - If you accept the principle of natural selection, which even most creationists as well as all evolutionists accept, then why can you not see the same principle at work here? On a scientific level, do you think human genetics operates any differently from that of the animals, which we routinely breed for the purposes of expressing specific traits?

Oh, I don't know . . . maybe it has something to do with a little thing called the human soul???

Of course, if you think that the human soul is actually just biochemical reactions in the brain . . .

40 posted on 12/11/2007 9:38:56 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Vayo'mer "'Ani Yosef 'achiykhem 'asher-mekhartem 'oti Mitzraymah.")
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To: wideawake

Completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

Once speciation has occurred, the interbreeding finally stops.

The “macro-evolution” folk say changes cannot ever reach that stage.

I want to know their proposed mechanism for stopping.


41 posted on 12/11/2007 9:40:46 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus; Deut28
A genetic study out of Canada, perhaps out of McGill, a few years back demonstrated that Jews whose families are Kohanim actually do share an allele that is traceable back to a common ancestor in the region of ancient Israel - pretty much dynamiting the old Khazar theory.

The Jews are distinctive in that their matrilineal identification enabled converts to integrate into the gene pool (unlike other closed religious groups like the more recent Druze, Yezidis and the Zoroastrians), in that they were still pretty dedicated to intermarriage up until the 1800s, and in that within the Jewish population there is Kohanim/Levite population that also practiced internal intermarriage.

Plus, it's such a large sample.

42 posted on 12/11/2007 9:41:15 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: Deut28

“Rather odd that this phenomenon had a greater impact on a subset of Jews than other parts of humankind.”

I was thinking along the same lines — so that perhaps a corollary of this thesis would be to ask why the Arabs ceased to evolve about 800 years ago...


43 posted on 12/11/2007 9:41:31 AM PST by Clioman
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To: 1st-P-In-The-Pod; 2ndDivisionVet; A_Conservative_in_Cambridge; af_vet_rr; agrace; Aiko; ...
If Ashkenazi Jews have such superior intelligence, how does that explain the retards running the Israeli government?

FReepMail to be added or removed from this pro-Israel/Judaic/Russian Jewry ping list.

Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.

44 posted on 12/11/2007 9:42:05 AM PST by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

No, the whole point of the invented “macro-evolution” is that changes cannot accumulate far enough that the new popuation has lost its ability to interbreed with the ancestral one.


45 posted on 12/11/2007 9:42:51 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: Gingersnap
Actually in almost all mammals there is a gene that turns off the lactase gene that makes the lactase enzyme to digest lactose the sugar in milk. There is a common allele that is a mutation of this inactivating gene, such that lactase is constitutively expressed throughout life. This allele is most common in Northern European populations, who have apparently ‘evolved’ to drink milk.

If you adopt an African or Asian child and insist on feeding it milk past infancy you will notice a large amount of intestinal distress, an no amount of ‘inculturation’ into our milk drinking culture is going to inactivate his gene that inactivates the lactase gene.

46 posted on 12/11/2007 9:43:35 AM PST by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD (Hunter 08))
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Oh, I don't know . . . maybe it has something to do with a little thing called the human soul???

Of course, if you think that the human soul is actually just biochemical reactions in the brain . . .

Actually, I'm quite big into the human soul. I also know that the human soul doesn't have anything to do with the genetics that determine our physical and related traits. After all, we KNOW from experience that there are some people who are just plain smarter than others. This doesn't mean that they have "better" or "bigger" souls than the other, however. Our soul is immaterial. Intelligence IS biochemical and physiological, as well as being partially environmental. Intelligence doesn't equal "the soul", however.

47 posted on 12/11/2007 9:43:51 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: From many - one.
No, the whole point of the invented “macro-evolution” is that changes cannot accumulate far enough that the new popuation has lost its ability to interbreed with the ancestral one.

Well, I hardly think macro-evolution is "invented", since we see evidence for it all around us, every day.

48 posted on 12/11/2007 9:44:58 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: From many - one.
The “macro-evolution” folk say changes cannot ever reach that stage.

Probably because there are no documented examples of one species becoming two - only guesses regarding such already differentiated species as horses and donkeys.

Presumably if evolution is moving at the breakneck speed alleged by this study, there should be clear examples of species that were one, say in the year 1000, that are two non-interbreeding species now.

49 posted on 12/11/2007 9:49:34 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: squireofgothos; SunkenCiv
GGG Ping.

Nearly Half Of Ashkenazi Jews Descended From Four 'Founding Mothers'

"ScienceDaily (Jan. 17, 2006) — Some 3.5 million or 40 percent of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from just four “founding mothers” who lived in Europe 1,000 years ago. The mothers were part of a small group who founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community, which was established in Europe as a result of migration from the Near East."

50 posted on 12/11/2007 9:49:42 AM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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